Ethanol replacing MTBE article

JustMrWill

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 12, 2003
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877
I am sure this has been discussed before..but just read this article..
Fuel for thought

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By AMANDA LEHMERT
STAFF WRITER
EAST FALMOUTH - On a stifling July afternoon, Green Pond Tackle and Marina owner Harry Turner sat surrounded by dozens of fishing poles in his air-conditioned office overlooking a sparkling estuary - and talked about a new aggravation.


Boats of all types and sizes can be affected by the ethanol now being added to gasoline. Experts say the worst problems come from mixing the new fuel with the old.

His marina and others across the Cape have been the site of headaches for boat owners and mechanics dealing with a bevy of problems associated with Massachusetts' switch to the gasoline additive ethanol.

''Oh, there are a lot of sob stories,'' Turner said.

The new ethanol mixture replaced methyl tertiary butyl ether, or MTBE, as a fuel oxygenator in Massachusetts gas tanks earlier this year.

Area boat owners discovered in the past few weeks that ethanol can gum up engines and filters and even lead to the deterioration of certain kinds of fuel tanks.

Depending on the age and condition of the marine vehicle, boat experts said the new fuel blend could be merely a manageable nuisance or a potentially explosive problem.

''It's kind of a surprise. No one really expected it to happen so fast,'' said Chuck Fort, assistant editor at the owners association Boat US.

Across the country, states have been switching to gasoline with ethanol instead of MTBE, a possible human carcinogen that has polluted U.S. water supplies.

The new additive, essentially an alcohol made from corn, has made a smooth transition into automobile fuel.

But boats, which have similar engines but different fuel systems, have had unexpected problems that mechanics sometimes have a difficult time identifying.

Recently, local mechanics report, more boats than usual have been towed in with clogged filters or engine trouble.

''The biggest problem is that you aren't supposed to mix this new stuff with the old stuff,'' Turner said.

It is unclear exactly what happens when old and new gas mix, Fort said, but it can create a sludge that clogs carburetors.

The best bet is pumping off the old gas before you fill up with the new stuff - a somewhat expensive prospect at about $7 a gallon.

''It's a hell of a lot cheaper than towing it in,'' said Rick Schermerhorn, from Edwards Boatyard in East Falmouth.

Mechanics also recommend cleaning the tank or carrying spare filters, since the ethanol will scrub free any tank debris. That could clog filters or cause other damage.

Even owners with well-maintained boats should watch out for water getting into their engines.

Unlike car engines, boat engines vent to the air, allowing water to build up in the tank in the moist marine environment.

In that environment, the ethanol can mix with the water and separate from the gasoline, changing the octane of the fuel or even allowing water to enter the engine.

Greg Galvin, president of the Massachusetts Marine Trades Association, suggested boaters use a water separating filter to prevent water from leaving the fuel tank.

The biggest headaches - and expenses - may be for boaters with fiberglass fuel tanks.

The tanks, which were put in boats in the mid-1980s and earlier, can deteriorate in the presence of the ethanol. In a handful of documented cases, tanks have leaked, creating a potentially explosive situation, Fort said.

At Onset Bay Marina, Galvin has replaced four fuel tanks and has more waiting. The costs can run $800 to $1,500 for a tank and $3,000 for labor.

''It is good for us, but it isn't too good for boat owner. We have some boat owners here who have chosen not to put them in (the water) for the season,'' Galvin said. ''It's unfortunate to see people not be able to use their boats.''

But some boat owners, such as Rick Schaffer, whose boats have fiberglass tanks, are hoping their tanks last one more season. Schaffer, who docks his Bertram 33 Sport Fish at Green Pond Marina, said he is frustrated with the lack of reliable information available from the boat builder.

''That is the one fear factor we all have, that our tanks will be compromised and we will be blown up and die while we are on our way,'' Schaffer said.

Amanda Lehmert

can be reached at alehmert@capecodonline.com.

(Published: July 24, 2006)
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Just a FYI

-JMW
 

Flukinicehole

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 29, 2004
Messages
365
Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

This has been going on in N.Y for a year now.There are a lot of blown powerheads on out boards,the 2strokes have a tough time with the water.The new 4strokes seem to be better but Irun an I/O and have had no problems so far,but I do carry an extra filter(always have).The MTBE polluted a lot of ground water here on Long Island like we didnt have enough problems already.
 

Silvertip

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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

I give up! Of course mechanics will blame E10 fuel for all sorts of problems. Funny that isn't the case here in the midwest where we've been using E10 for years. And we probably have more 50's and 60's engines on the water yet than anywhere else in the country. If you have a dirty fuel system to start with, E10 will clean it for you. The result will be a plugged fuel filter and the need to rebuild the carbs which probably needed to be done anyway.
 

Flukinicehole

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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

It`s not the dirty filters I question its the blown powerheads.I think its great that it cleans the tank out but the water absorbtion is no good.Thats why alcohol cars get there tanks drained.Newer engines have a much harder time with this then the older engines.You might ask why? well they are more effecient and have closer (tighter) quelch this is trouble if any(any) water gets into the cylinder.I`m no expert but you cant compress water.Something has to give and It`s the powerhead.Like I said I`ve never had a problem but the boat repair business behind me loves the ethanol.
 

Flukinicehole

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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

I forgot maybe it`s because of the humidity on the east coast? That could be a factor as the midwest has much less then here.Humidity could add a lot of condensation to the fuel.
 

billybones

Seaman
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Jun 20, 2006
Messages
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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

LOL. ethanol is not eating anything.. 10 percent. Anything above that does burn hotter, thus the burn off of oil.. but at 10 percent its no different. But E-85 is 85 percent ethanol and will toast a motor.. say blow a power head. Its just alchohol. not eating gas tanks and such.. If that was the case many a race car would be leaking fuel while driving.. They have plastic tanks. I worked at a gas station for years.. They put enough stuff in it to absorb about 20% water. they don't like getting sued.And its not mtbe or ethanol..
 

Silvertip

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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

I don't dispute there are some water issues on vessels with large tanks and in certain regions. By the way, I welcome you to visit the midwest today as we do have high humidity just like we do most of June, July and August. My boat sits with 22 gallons of fuel in it from early November until late March with no moisture issues. Does the problem exist? Apparently! Is it a regional problem? Apparently! Does it require some precautions? Certainly! E-10 is here (or there) -- deal with it unless you have the option of buying unoxygenated fuel for "off-road" use.
 

RotaryRacer

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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

Flukinicehole said:
That could be a factor as the midwest has much less then here.Humidity could add a lot of condensation to the fuel.

Have you ever been to the mid west? What is the mid west anyway?

All I know is that in Michigan right now we have been at about 60-70% relative humidity for a few days with due points around 60-70F and temps around 85-90F. This is typical.

If that isn't humid I would hate to know what is.
 

Flukinicehole

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 29, 2004
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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

Are you kidding 60-70% thats no humidity here check the weather on Long Island. It`s a constant 80% or better here for most of the summer.What you have is fall weather here.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

Oh my gosh! We now have a dispute over humidity. It appears you folks on the east coast will have to sell your boats as you're convinced E-10 will kill the engine(s).
 

JustMrWill

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 12, 2003
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Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

Wow...alot of debate...my purpose was to say "keep an eye on possible problems and be alittle more maintainance-minded".

I feel that it is better to be prepared for the worst and hope for the best...so I am bringing a spare filter and definately installing a water separator on my boat before filling up with the "new gas". If boat start running poorly...I will now think to look at some of the things mentioned in the article.

-JMW
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Ethanol replacing MTBE article

If you have MTBE fuel in the tank, run it down or empty it before using E-10. If you travel to other states that still use MTBE don't at E-10 to it. If you have a fiberglass tank its the combo of E-10/MTBE that's doing the damage, not E-10. Most underground tanks today are fiberglass. Don't think they changed those because of E-10. They survive E-85 as does the tank in my new car. If you have an old boat, there will likely be some fuel system issues. If its a newer model with a fuel system that has been properly maintained, carry a couple of fuel filters and enjoy your boat. We've used E-10 in the midwest since 1997. My 1995 Evinrude lived on a diet of E-10 very nicely until it was sold last fall. Never so much as a hiccup.
 
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