Ethanol water intrusion solution

[Scaaty]

Half asleep this morning, and while the mind does its wandering, I think I may have come up with at least a partial solution to the problem of venting and water vapor/condensation through the vent line. I have in my 45 year collection of tools and stuff, a simple Water-Oil Separator for spray painting. From Harbor Freight. <br />Has 1/4 NPT male and female ends, so you just need a corresponding M-F Barb ends for splicing into your vent line. Has a Schrader valve for emptying the water. About the size of those little see through gas filters. I see no reason why it won't at least slow down if not stop moisture from entering the tank. And another way to dry it out would be to simply pull it off and put it in an oven on very low heat (brain working overtime here). Anyway, as I haven't put my big boat in the water yet, I plan to add double MDR WaterZorb to whats in the tank from last year (Stabiled and Mystery Oil), and I always tape off the vent over the winter, but will leave a piece of tape over the vent when the boats is slipped, note on dash, and run last years gas down just short of paddling, and just hope for the best on the old barge on 10% Ethanol, in that hidden 90 gallon gas tank. I'm also putting an external see-through gas filter on my one outboard boat with built in tank, just to see what shows up in it. Not going to depend on the puny one up at the pump. Thoughts?<br />Link .. web page

 

[bomar76]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Other than all the violated safety issues, fine idea.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Originally posted by bomar76:<br /> Other than all the violated safety issues, fine idea.

Then figure out a way AROUND IT so its safe!<br /> <br />ITS A VENT LINE....use common sense and zero problem<br /><br /> Jeezz....getting up in the morning is probably violating some BS rule nowadays. I give up.

 

[bomar76]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

What part of not USCG Approved beffudles you?<br /><br /><br />edited to add to missing "C" in USCG

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

The main safety issue is that Federal Regulations require every fuel system part to withstand a 2 1/2 minute direct flame without burning up or leaking, while filled with gasoline.<br /><br />You also cannot use a "spring loaded" drain valve on gasoline sytems, they have to be leakproof pipe plugs.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Originally posted by seahorse:<br /> The main safety issue is that Federal Regulations require every fuel system part to withstand a 2 1/2 minute direct flame without burning up or leaking, while filled with gasoline.<br /><br />You also cannot use a "spring loaded" drain valve on gasoline sytems, they have to be leakproof pipe plugs.

Its a open vent......mine would be outside the engine compartment, just like the big old hole thats back there now that vents on the outside, but I can see that after 50 years in more boats that I can even begin to remember, that innovation is dead....... (like something simple as pulling it apart for the filter and putting it in the hose, or design something ) .......but...long live the rule book.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Originally posted by bomar76:<br />[QB] What part of not USCG Approved beffudles you?<br /> After 45 years wrenching, 35 as a Journeyman Machinist, you would be suprised at just what I think of experts.......

 

[bigbrownbuku]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

as long as its not beneath decks with an engine i cant see a problem. the biggest problem most boats will have to overcome is space for such a device on the vent line. also would it create any kind of negative pressure in the tank?<br />every single fuel injected engine in the marine market today has a schrader valve or equivalent after the fuel pump. some right on the fuel rail atop the engine. why couldnt a schrader be put on a filter/ air dryer on a tank vent line.<br />how is it less safe then a piece of hose connecting a tank full of gas directly to the atmosphere.<br />maybe a re-read of the uscg regs?

 

[tommays]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

If you seal off the tank for storage or just while it sits during the week the tank contents have to EXPANDED SOEMWERE as anybody who has filled up to full in the fall and the seen the vent dump gas on the first hot spring day will tell you.<br /><br />NOW he is were the problem starts when it cools the tank will inplode from the vacume formed if the air is not allowed to enter freely<br /><br />Ask anybody who emptys tankers or any storage tank it happens a LOT when vents fail<br /><br />The filter your looking at wont STOP any water( i keep 100 HP of air dry )in are lab areas we have to use a unit with a desiccant drying material to stop the water vapor in low volume air flow<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Ayuh,...... While I Agree it's a Unique Idea,....<br /><br />It Won't Work....... Those Air Dryers work with Compressed Air,..... Not Free Flowing, Unpressurized air,.....<br />It's the little bit of Expansion in that bulb that allows the Release of the Water.....<br /><br />Condensation is a natural occurance,...Venting is a Necessity.......<br /><br />Good Filters will Stop Water from getting to the motor,...... Just Change them More Often if necessary......

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

or change the fuel vent and fill ports to the latest semi sealed type. the vent is routed to the fill pipe and the venting is done by a spring loaded valve.<br /> innovation aint dead by cheapskates are killing me.<br />the product is there but it costs money so its not used.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Originally posted by tommays:<br />[QB] If you seal off the tank for storage or just while it sits during the week the tank contents have to EXPANDED SOEMWERE as anybody who has filled up to full in the fall and the seen the vent dump gas on the first hot spring day will tell you.<br /><br />I've never done something as stupid as that. Besides, $300-400 dollars to fill up a tank to sit for 9 months is a waste. I run it low, put in a 1/3 tank if I have the money to waste, which is Stabiled + MM oiled (mostly to help protect the tank), tape off the vent, AND IT HAS NEVER COME OFF. And don't ya think that if the pressure in that tank DID increase, the piece of crummy electrical tape would blow off? Maybe in wild temp swings this could occur, but we don't have that here in the PNW. Just like the sealed (vent closed) 5 gallon tanks (which ARE full) in my shed have never blown the cork. <br />Look, I know all about what you mention above, but your getting off subject. We are being introduced to Ethanol. It rains alot here in the PNW. There is probably more than a few boats with built in tanks that will have a problem with the water in them, and the introduction of Ethanol could park some poor SOB out in the ocean 30 miles from shore. CG choppers cost $12,000 an hour (yep, its the $600 hammer thing)to fly to help some one. I'm looking for some reasonable dialog here, not the so-so tunnel vision that runs rampant in this world nowadays. <br />I swear, it seems to me this world we live in now is trying its damnedest to figure out a way to make the wheel square. <br />It appears that Bondo and Rodbolt have come up with some solid answers, and I will address them now.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Originally posted by Bondo:<br /> <br />It Won't Work....... Those Air Dryers work with Compressed Air,..... Not Free Flowing, Unpressurized air,.....

Thats what I also had in mind, but wasn't sure. I didn't think that any filter would stop moisture in the air (which is now a gas), without stopping the air too. <br />Good answer...thanks.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> or change the fuel vent and fill ports to the latest semi sealed type. the vent is routed to the fill pipe and the venting is done by a spring loaded valve.<br />the product is there but it costs money so its not used.

I see where your coming from on this. And as you have (I think it was you) said, insane that we have not gone to closed systems, with evap cannisters. The fumes pouring out those vents I do believe will have a short life...REAL short. Just on the local news BS this morning some brain with too much time on his hands developed a camera that detects hydrocarbons...shows up as black smoke. You have probably seen it yourself with the naked eye at filling stations, where you can see the fumes around the nozzle and side of the car while waiting in line. Looks similar to a desert mirage. Showed a older and newer car getting filled. This guy ever gets to a Marina with that camera ... we all gonna be in trouble with vented to the air tanks. Thanks for your reply RB...

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Ethanol water intrusion solution

ya outta see the inside of the dry stack on the first 85 degree day, sounds like a rain forrest with all the gas dripping.<br /> ya fill the tank at 35-40 degrees with 150 gallons then heat it to 90 or so in the upper stack and the fuel streams out.<br /> in my area if you fill a 5 gallon can in the evening and cap it tightly the next day it may rupture.in the summer time.I have complained of open tank venting for years.<br /> but I am gonna post in the stupid human section about a 30 mile offshore tow last wednesday.<br />look for it soon