Ethics Question for J.B.

[alcan]

Hi JB <br />I see you always discourage folks from asking for copies of copywrited materal. I agree that you need to pay for what you get. I payed for, traded for, was given all the info in my personal library. There are no two ways about it it belongs to me. Now could you explain to me what would be the differnce if you come to my house and look at the materails or borrow them from me, or I send you an e-mail copy of a schematic, diagram or a few pages of instructions? Most of the stuff I send these guy's can not be easly obtained by other means. If I were selling this info via Iboats I could see where there might be a problem. Since the only fee I have ever charged is a sincere thank you, I do not feel I'am doing anything wrong. I hate to admit how often I get stiffed on my fee. Please forgive my spelling. Respectfully alcan

 

[JB]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

Hi, ALCAN.<br /><br />Interesting question. There are several ways to view this issue.<br /><br />I am not a lawyer, so I couldn't predict what a court would say, but here is how my sense of justice sees it.<br /><br />A Copyright is just that: the right to copy.<br /><br />A license is an agreement by the owner of a copyright to allow the licensee to copy. Most libraries have license to copy what ever they have. They extend this to their members.<br /><br />Making copies to avoid buying the copyrighted material, except with license, violates the spirit of the law, as I see it. So does soliciting someone to do so for the same reason.<br /><br />If a member wants or needs a particular diagram and getting it legally is difficult or inconvenient, I sympathize. If it is in a manual that iboats sells I encourage the member to buy the manual. <br /><br />That is a one-time investment that the member needs to make in any case, if (s)he intends to work on the engine.<br /><br />Each member can decide on copying protected documents. <br /><br />I discourage it in the interest of iboats business, my own ethics and the member's long term need to have the whole manual.

 

[alcan]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

Hi JB<br />I totaly agree that folks should invest in their own copies of repair manuals. As you know from my past posts I also strongly recomend and encourage this. I do not usually send info that can be found in after market pubications ( what I boats sells) , how ever I have, if I feel the info or picture best explains the situation. I believe these free tid bits have done more to promote sales of parts and books than detract. I feel once a person goes to the library and realizes how much they need to know about repairing, maintaining and operating outboard motors (in this case) the more they realize they need their own book. I respect your veiws and opinions on this subject. Thank you for your response.

 

[lakeman1999]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

Every time I have aquired a new vehicle, I have invested in a manual for it. A factory one if offered reasonably. I also did this with all three outboard motors that are in my posession. They definently pay for themselves very rapidly. I would consider myself a fool if I did not have an owners repair manual for a vehicle, or outboard in my posesion, after once seeing the value of having one. One simple little task which maybe can be repaired in one minute, a dealer is going to charge you a one hour minimum labor charge, and what is hourly labor charges now, $35.00, $50.00, or maybe more? I do not know, as I can usually do my own maintenance, and repairs with a manual, which usually can be obtained for less than the cost of the minimum one hour labor charge.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

OK, at what point does information you read out of a book/manual/tech paper, and is now stored in my head, cease being copyrighted. Such as sparkplug gaps, or how to start your outboard, or how to do a compression check?

 

[SeaMasterZ@aol.com]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

of course, it is not legal to SELL copyrighted material, or to use in any way to barter, trade, exchange services for or otherwise profit from said material ...<br /><br />but if someone says they have ordered a manual, and indeed, they are a one time poster for said info, I see no harm in expediting that particular piece of information to him or her if I have it at my disposal ... lets be honest, all I am really doing is saving him a trip to the library, and thats saving the nations resources, in fact, I am doing this great nation a tremendous service by doing what I do ...<br /><br />So wheres my Medal of Honor?<br /><br />hehehe<br /><br />and thats all I have to say about that<br /><br />

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

I'm not a Lawyer but my sister is (we all can't be normal)and her take on the copyright laws is that they are to protect the rights to make a profit from their work. She says that if you do not charge you should be ok as long as you do not reproduce the entire book. The law would take a dim view of you copying and charging for the information. <br /><br />IU just thought of something from my college days. You may want to site the book where you received the information from to give the publisher their due. If you can copy information and submit it in a paper with a proper site i see no reason why you can't do it amongst individuals.

 

[Bear]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

Talking about copyright, anyone knows why this link to http://www.boaterssupply.com/ doesn't work anymore?<br /><br />Exploded wievs of jonnyrudes from 1980-<br /> http://www.boaterssupply.com/default.asp?a=set&id=1&name=Evinrude <br /><br />It's too bad. The only site who got them as far as I know. Very useful. <br />Copyright laws?

 

[marty_scher]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

Copyrighted material is illegal to reproduce, even in part, without the owners written permission($$$$), even though most of us do it once in a while.<br /><br />There is not a Copyright holder in existence that does not realize that some level of infringement will occur, so they have to decide how much they want to protect their copyrights. Maybe not at all, but the look what the RIAA is doing. <br /><br />Whether we give it away (as a reproduction) or not does not matter, since it is not ours to give away.<br /><br />Here is the iBoats riot-act, that mirrors how most copyright holders feel:<br /><br />OOOPS, I was going to cut and paste, but hey, that's a copyright violation , so look at paragraph 15 of this link, concerning reproduction. iBoats legal <br /><br />Don't lose any sleep over this Alcan

 

[alcan]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

Wow Guys,<br />A lot of interesting veiws. As I am sort of old school and realitively new to computers, the web, cell phones and all this E-stuff. I find myself wondering from time to time, is this right? is this ok? Sure its legal to talk on your cell phone, (if you pay for it). But is it ok to interupt a conversation with me, in my living room, to answer your damm phone? Don't get me wrong here, I've never been accused of being an angel. I've pulled my share of faux-paus. This new technology seems to be creating some new grey areas in our society. Fortunatly I have faith, as we develope new things, we will also develope the protocalls to go with them. I appreciate all of your comments. Marty thank you for your concern. I promise I won't loose any sleep. But if I end up in Levenswoth, You'll come a vist me won't you?

 

[ob]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

I noticed that too Bear.That site was extremely useful in refering to parts breakdowns.There one day and gone the next.May all those fiche drawings rest in peace.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

I gotta say something about this issue. We are asked constantly for wiring diagrams for this-n-that, carb exploded views and such.<br />I can go to the library and pull the manual off the shelf, carry it over to the coin-operated copy machine, and get whatever I am willing to spend the 10cents per copy for... Now, is this legal?<br />I dunno..I don't care. If they wanted to uphold copywright laws to the letter, they would rip the copy machine outta the wall,or ask for I.D. before each use.<br />As for iboats, they are a buisness, so posting copywrighted material is a definate no-no.Add to this, the loss of revenue from unsold manuals from one of it's sponsors? They need all the patronage we can muster. Besides, why even go there? The occasoinal user may slip-up here and there, but trust me, a hungry attorney would jump on every such slip-up.<br />So it's best to err on the side of caution.

 

[DJ]

Re: Ethics Question for J.B.

I'm sure if someone looked it up, copying a page at the library COULD probably be deemed illegal. Copying the entire publication, probably definetely is.<br /><br />However, the internet has changed all of that.<br /><br />It would not be that difficult for someone to copy an entire manual and spread it around the world. Thus, the printed version, and the worth of that material to the author, becomes almost nill.<br /><br />Look what is happening to the music industry with music being shared (for free) via the web. If were an artist and my recordings didn't sell because everyone got a copy for free, I would be upset too.