evinrude 1989 140hp starting issues

[PhatCrewy]

G'day all,

After doing some searching around on this forum and seloc manual and on boatinfo i thought id pick some smart brains on here. I have spark and i have compression, and have cleaned out the carbys. I am trying to do the pick up timing and i am getting a little lost. Now the manual says to loosen the top stop on the throttle rod. and adjust the cam away from the throttle plate thats fine. However there is no mention of the timing base. I see the spark max advance on the starboard side but i also have an adjustment on the port side( which i assume has something to do with the pick up. I cant seem to find a base setting for the port side screw. Anyone point me in the right direction ? i have read a few posts which say idle should sort its self so i am happy to look on the fuel side and maybe throw some start ya bastard down its guts. Also the idle adjustment screw position when conducting this?

 

[PhatCrewy]

Ok so update it seems to be a fueling issue as i need to use the prime injector to get it to start. once started it runs for maybe 5 seconds has a cough and splutter and then dies. i would still like some information on what the point of the adjusting screw on the port side is for. It seems to be a stop for the minimum spark advance and no reference on how to set it. I brought some starting fluid and will give it a hit with it tomorrow. Not sure where to start with the fuel system as i pulled apart the carbys and gave them a good clean so maybe i need to look at reed valves ? ill put some photos up and what happened with the starting spray tomorrow.

 

[racerone]

How did this motor start for you last year ?-----Post your starting procedure with exact details.-----Fact---It is not uncommon for folks to struggle with starting of older motors.-----On more than one occasion have I coached folks on how to start an older motor.---Usually they say ---" thank you "

 

[PhatCrewy]

Thanks for the reply racerone. The motor is from a project boat and has not been used in anger for quiet some time. However, it got some loving with new parts where required except the power head. I did the prework taking the plugs out and rotating by hand after adding a few drops of marine oil to the cylinders. Further, except for the timing base which tested ok and the coils which also tested ok the rest of the electrical system is new including the loom. I have read on here about the spark being able to jump a 7/16 gap? so in metric about 11mm? have not test the spark on that much of a gap so will do. Is this done to specifically test the output ability of the coil ? To start i have found a few cranks with the choke injector on wont start it but a crank after with no prime will get it running for 5 seconds. It has a rhythmic cough and then stalls. I agree with rowerowe who posted on my other post suggesting to work through my fuel system, so thats what i will start with today. However, if anyone is able to explain to me the port side adjuster setting that would be great. I will en-devour to upload images today as well.

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

Just a thought here: when you did the carbs, did you set the float height and drop correctly?I ask because if the float height is wrong, they will sometimes start, but then die because the fuel bowls are bone dry. I'd take out the bowl screws on each one and make sure they are full of fuel. That Seloc manual is really terrible, especially for explaining synch n link. for $20 you can get a used factory manual from ebay.

 

[PhatCrewy]

Thanks ct! yea i agree on the manual being average and that might be a worthwhile investment however hard to find a cheap copy in Australia. I can confirm all the carby bowls have fuel. Maybe someone who has a 1989 140hp OEM manual might be kind enough to upload the sync procedure

 

[PhatCrewy]

Update. Have gone and checked the choke solenoid, fuel pump, and spark and are all 100% good to go. also had to rebuild the starter motor however still same issue. im about to pull the carbys off and inspect them and the reed valves again. I feel that the carbys are not playing ball as it seems to just burn off the choke fuel then stall.

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

Ah no worries! If you need a section, I have a 1995 OMC looper manual. I Would check the re circulation valves next to make sure they are clear, but sounds like you have a blockage elsewhere. Can you find the section on that in your manual? you would need a syringe and some alcohol to make sure the hoses are clear. and the one-way valve. can post the section here tomorrow.
Are the throttle bodies clean? I think that year has core and expansion plugs you need to remove to make sure those tiny little holes are clean. and of course the idle circuit on the side of the carbs must be spotless, as well as all the idle air bleeds but im sure you did that with the carb rebuilds?

 

[PhatCrewy]

Update: still same issue. here are some pics of the old girl.

https://freeimage.host/i/JQ65Q4
https://freeimage.host/i/JQ6ATG
https://freeimage.host/i/JQ6YCl
https://freeimage.host/i/JQ6Rjf

have not checked recirc so might have a squiz in the manual. The carbies are clean. Getting a bit frustrated feel like im chasing my tail.

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

but the throttle bodies... did you take those off and clean them as well?

 

[PhatCrewy]

Yes i certainly did. I just chased the recirc check valves and found one that was partialy blocked and not sure about the bottom t piece one. i cleaned it out but it seems to not always seal 100 percent.

 

[PhatCrewy]

So basically i will see if i dont have another check valve or ill clean it and try to refit and see what happens. It has me scratching my head. It seems that it is staved of fuel, put putting the manual choke override on does not help it run until after it is run with the choke set off and still max out at 10 secs run time before it stalls. I guess i really need to pull the plugs and clean them up and then turn it over and see what they look like. Pending fuel issue maybe a wiring issue with timing ? I need to narrow it down. I am jumping all over the show. I know i have strong spark though i am not sure about the timing. i know i have fuel to the fuel bowls. I know that she will only run by sending fuel through the prime circuit and then cranking with out it. Anyone with any ideas please send them.

 

[jakedaawg]

When you cleaned the carbs did you remove and clean the orifice screwed in behind behind the drain screws?

do you have plastic or metal carb bowls? If plastic, check to make sure they are not cracked or warped.

 

[PhatCrewy]

Thanks for your reply Jake. Yes i did but i will be taking them off again to triple check everything. I will also shove a dial gauge in and check the flywheel alignment.

 

[tblshur]

have u checked the fuel bowls right after it quits may be air leak in fuel lines fittings or pulse behind fuel pump :joyous:

 

[PhatCrewy]

ok so i think i may have found an issue if not the issue. I shoved the dial indicator in cyc 1 and did the fly wheel mark and it was comming up at tdc at 23 BTDC so took the flywheel off which was way to easy and found this. So apparently i did not tighten the nut enough to press the flywheel on the tapper. or i did not grind down my socket enough and must of got a false torque reading? so i guess i better rectify this before i pull the carbies back off again!

 

[PhatCrewy]

i have another key so thats lucky better make sure i do it right this time. is there a special socket as i have had to grind one of mine to fit ? i guess i need a tool to hold the flywheel aswell... hmmm

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

either its a 1 5/16 or 1 7/8 someone will jump in to answer hopefully. i have both and forget if the v4 loopers use the same as the v6 loopers. But that's great news you were right it's timing! Usually if it pops and/or sneezes badly its timing gone horribly wrong. heres the thing: it MUST be torqued to atleast (i think for v4's it's the same) atleast 145 ft/lbs or it will shear the key right off, every time (no pun intended).

 

[racerone]

The V-4 looper 120 HP uses a 1-7/16" socket if memory serves me right.

 

[PhatCrewy]

correct it was the 1 7/8 socket. i tightened it up using some timber and punches as a hold tool and then swung on the 3/4 bar as i dont have a torque wrench on hand. and Vroom she started right up no dramas and didnt die yay. I am concerned with how long it took for the tell tale to start flowing though. the mating surface between the powerhead and the exhaust housing copped a bit of a bashing but i cleaned it up the best i could. How long is a reasonable amount of time for the pump to fill the powerhead before it discharges out the tell tale?