Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

seahorse,<br /><br />I think everyone realizes that the E-tech is trying to compete with the 4-strokes. <br /><br />My first point was that it doesn't seem to be competing with regard to price. Again, the 90 hp 4-stroke fuel injected Johnson or Suzuki is hundreds less. Even the Yamaha example you mentioned is only $400 more...and you're getting a proven 4-stroke.<br /><br />My second point was that if weight on a 90 hp is important to you, then why would you buy the 2-stroke E-tech, which is 40 lbs heavier (and $1,300 more expensive) than other 2-strokes?<br /><br />These are just examples for the 90 hp. I'd like to compare the other E-tech's too, but again for some odd reason Evinrude hasn't posted their specs (like they have on the rest of their outboards).<br /><br />I hope the E-tech's work out (even though other prior attempts with 2-stroke technology have fallen short). But IMO, the pricing isn't that great, and the light weight claims aren't that impressive for a 2-stroke. And a biggy...reliability and durability are unknown.<br /><br />This topic started out with someone who decided to buy an unproven 90 hp E-tech over a proven fuel injected 115 hp 4-stroke. And that would be a big mistake IMO, no matter the hype seahorse.

 

[texasduckhunter]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Well I changed my order for the second time and have decided to go with the Evinrude E-TEC. I will let everyone know what I think of the engine when I get it. It has been one of the toughest decisions I have ever made and I hope I will not regret it. I made my decision based on the extra weight of the 4 stroke on my War Eagle 1860 and the added maintenance cost associated with the Yamaha F115<br />I should get my new boat in the next few weeks, just in time for duck season. I will continue to monitor this form associated with my post so I can learn more from the people other than just weekend boaters.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

"I made my decision based on the extra weight of the 4 stroke on my War Eagle 1860 and the added maintenance cost associated with the Yamaha F115."<br /><br />Weight? IMO, you are comparing apples and oranges. The F115 is 25 hp more than the 90 E-tech. Heavier duty lower unit, bigger prop, etc. And you probably forgot to add the weight of your oil reservoir, which you will have to find somewhere to mount in your duck boat.<br /><br />Maintenance? You mean oil? You'd have to do a lot of duck hunting before you'd need an oil change on the 4-stroke, which BTW only takes 10 minutes. <br /><br />Don't forget you'll need to consistently check and add your 2-stroke oil...time and money. <br /><br />I've got 3000 hours on a pair of F115's used for guiding in the salt, and I've had zero maintenance issues. They've saved me a lot of money in maintenance costs over 2-strokes. I'm not confident you'll do the same with the new E-tech. But I hope you do.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Yamaha recommends oil changes every 6 months. That's twice a year maintenance and 10 quarts of oil and filter. You have to remove the motor cover and check the oil level each time you use it.<br /><br />According to Bombardier, with average use you do not have to add oil but once a year to the E-TEC motors, plus there is no scheduled maintenance for 3 years. Winterization is automatic, the outboard does it for you as soon as you "tell" it to.

 

[texasduckhunter]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

My boat is only 18 feet long, I felt it might be hard to get in skinny water with the 4 stroke on the back. As far as horsepower is concerned I have been told there is very little deffierence in speed when going from a 90 to 115 four stroke. Have you had to adjust the valves on your pair of 115? How much does that cost? What does it cost to change the oil and can most anyone do this?

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Want some REAL interesting reading? Merc published a "Outboard Technology" booklet that compares their 225 two stroke directly to their (marketed) 225 four stroke. This is the first time I've seen a company compare motors they market directly aginst each other. <br /><br />I know this is a comparison of motors that have more hp than we are talking about here but you'll get the idea.<br /><br />Note -- they did not address the weight issue. Nor the maintenance costs. Nor estimated repair costs.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

searhorse, I respect your enthusiasm over an outboard that hasn't been put through the ringer yet. That's a bold leap.<br /><br />But you exaggerate a little. Yamaha recommends oil changes on their F115 every 100 hours or every 6 months. 100 hours is a lot of duck hunt running (most people don't even hunt that many hours!).<br /><br />Keep in mind that outboards that don't frequently flush and filter their oil will wear out faster. The contaminates in the fuel and air which enter the engine, along with metal wear contaminates, accumulate over time. Any quality engine designed for the long-haul will have an oil filter system and drain interval to address this.<br /><br />A 2-stroke with no need to add oil all year? No maintenance for 3 years? Automatic winterizing?<br /><br />What can we expect for maintenance and costs after 3 years? <br /><br />No thanks.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

"As far as horsepower is concerned I have been told there is very little deffierence in speed when going from a 90 to 115 four stroke."<br /><br />Sounds like you're being told a lot of things. <br /><br />27% more power and way more prop capability will equate to a considerable speed increase, especially on that boat.<br /><br />"Have you had to adjust the valves on your pair of 115?"<br /><br />No. <br /><br />"How much does that cost?"<br /><br />Couldn't tell ya, and I wouldn't worry about it. Yamaha recommends to inspect the valves every two years. You can do that yourself in about 30 minutes, although I've found it to be a waste of time since they've never needed adjustment. <br /><br />"What does it cost to change the oil and can most anyone do this?"<br /><br />$7.00 for a filter and 5 X $1.25 for oil. That's under $13.25. What's the price for a jug of 2-stroke oil?<br /><br />Yes, you can easily change the oil, my 12 year old son does mine in about 10 minutes.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

"This is the first time I've seen a company compare motors they market directly aginst each other."<br /><br />Keep in mind that Mercury's 225 2-stroke is their own....and Mercury's 225 4-stroke is Yamaha's. I'm sure Mercury would rather have you buy their product in its entirety.

 

[texasduckhunter]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Ok I am in outboard overload and don't know what to think. I thought this would be like buying a car but it is ten times as hard. I know very little about boat engines but feel like I have ask 100 questions to both the dealers and other outboard owners like you guys. I have talked to the tech guys at Evinrude and took off early today to talk to somone at Yamaha corp. I have 2004 motor cut sheets for both companies and have read them 100's of times. Evinrude likes to talk about all the maintance on the four strokes and more moving parts. They say it it more costly to repair and then there is the weight factor. I just want to feel that I have made the right decision. I dont really care if one of the engines cost more as money is not what is driving my decision. I am more interested in quality and something that will last many years. Any more input you guys can give would be great!<br /><br />Thanks <br />Mark

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

"I dont really care if one of the engines cost more as money is not what is driving my decision. I am more interested in quality and something that will last many years. Any more input you guys can give would be great!"<br /><br />And there lies the problem....<br /><br />We really know nothing about how the new E-tech will do. But we can pretty much rest assured with the F115. It's your money. Take a chance or go with a sure thing.

 

[mudcat1]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Just logged on and this is the first time I've heard of e-tec.Can someone explain?

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

mudcat,<br /><br />Go to: <br /> http://www.evinrude.com/e-tec/background.htm

 

[mudcat1]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Thanks Seahorse.That http sure explained it.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Hello<br /> having just read that E-tec http all I can say is wow. its time for me to release My outboard on the market. its a celluloid supertech wishboard. hang it on the transom and drink beer. but with a lifetime warrenty and no maintenace and a 49.95 pricetag it should sell well the first year. anyway I am not at all sold on the new direct injection technology. what I read was a bunch of sales hype and wishful thinking. the yam 115's are good engines takes an hour or so to check the valve clearenes. takes 30 min or so to change oil and grease it. if its an EFI 115 then you can fog it and decarb it by removing the vacum line from the fuel rail pressuere regulator and squirting it in the hose.but the thing is when the 115 dies it will be cost prohibitive to repair. it will take about 40 hours to overhaul.if all the yamaha steps are followed and the oil sump is removed and cleaned.no words yet on head repairs or replacements due to burned valves, cracked head or blown head gaskets. time will tell but so far was it my coinage I would take the efi 115 anyday<br /> good luck and keep posting<br />PS my supertech wishboard will come in 2 colors and 300 horsepower sound effects( upgradeable to 350hp with 1/2 second hole shots)

 

[kenneths]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Forktail, not that it really matters, but 100hrs-or 6 months, is whichever comes first......10hrs at 6mos.....change the oil. 100hrs at 6 mos...change the oil.<br /> Bombardier has alot to offer, and their theory has been "If it's questionable-redesign it, and make it work".<br /> The sale of the company shouldn't bother anyone because "the family" literally bought the recreational division-Bombardier is STILL the last word in design and manufacturing of the products....It was a slick-trick, get out of some tax crap, capitol gains deferal, hide it-we want to keep it, kinda deal.<br /> I've worked with Bombardier's aviation division, and they didn't stop when the met the competition, they blew right on past, and continue to be by far, the best corporate aviation supplier there is.<br /> They have proven the redesigning of the ficht, and even though the full blow has not been felt yet...they have no competition anymore in the DFI market.<br /> Merc, Yamaha, step aside....the new BOSS is here........

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

kennys, nothing from Yamaha says, "whichever comes first". This isn't a warranty clause. <br /><br />In fact my maintenance manual lists 100 hours first, as the primary interval. Yamaha puts (6 months) in parenthesis for those who don't or can't keep track of time by hours. Keep in mind that the F115 comes in a tiller version that won't have an hour meter.<br /><br />If you use your outboard a lowly 10 hours in 6 months , and want to change your oil at only 10 hours, that's your choice. IMO, it's crazy. With this type of thinking it's no wonder you think maintenance costs are high? It's no wonder the "no maintenance for three years" turns you on.<br /><br />Look, no one's a bigger Bombardier fan than me. I'm just as loyal to their snowmobiles, watercraft, and ATV's (I own all) as I am to my Yamaha outboards. I'd love to see their outboards surpass the best we have now. And when I see that happening, I'll be the first to put them on the transoms of my fishing boats.<br /><br />Until then, all the intuition, presumptions, and guessing won't change my mind. Why should it? What'll change my mind is seeing them out there in the salt, day in and day out, working like mules. With all the claims of no maintenance, I find that hard to believe they will hold up.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

hello<br /> I must disagree with the extended service. it needs to be done regardless of hours . I just replaced a 97 200 yam with 186 hours on the clock. the water pump failed and she smoked. is a clean motor though.the fist thing out of the customers mouth when I told him she was blowed up was its only got186 hours on it. I pulled alll the service records and he had one 10 hour check. after that nothing cause he never used it. you guys should try spraying you truck motors and chassis with saltwater everyday for two weeks then just run it around back and park it for 8 months then do it again. do this every eight months for 4 years.<br /> come back in 4 years and let me know how good it runs at wide open towing its max load for 4 hours.<br /> that will tell the tale<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Forktail,<br /><br />page 4-10 and 4-16 of the 2003 Yamaha F115 4-stroke owners manual says to change motor oil at 100hrs. or 6 months. It also says to change the filter once a year or 200 hours, whichever comes first.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

"the 2003 Yamaha F115 4-stroke owners manual says to change motor oil at 100hrs. or 6 months."<br /><br />Thanks for echoing what I stated 12 posts ago, especially the "or" part....<br /><br />"Yamaha recommends oil changes on their F115 every 100 hours or every 6 months." - by Forktail<br /><br />There's no mention of "whichever comes first". Again, if you want to change your oil with 10 hours on it, by all means knock yourself out. <br /><br />"page 4-10 and 4-16 of the 2003 Yamaha F115 4-stroke owners manual says....to change the filter once a year or 200 hours, whichever comes first."<br /><br />Sorry seahorse, I've got my 2003 F115 owner's manual right in front of me. It says to change the oil filter every 200 hours (1 year). It says nothing about, "whichever comes first". However, I would personally recommend changing the filter at every oil change. They're cheap and it takes 2 minutes.<br /><br />BTW, in the owner's guides that came with my 2003 F115's, page 4-10 concerns "greasing", and page 4-16 concerns oil filling. ?? Other than the maintenance chart, nowhere in my manual does it mention oil filter maintenance. ?? That's the F115A/LF115A OWNER"S MANUAL, copyright 2001 by Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd., 2nd Edition, April 2001.<br /><br />I'm not sure what the point of this "oil changing" thing is? It looks like you're trying to prove that 3-years of zero maintenance would be superior to simple oil changes. I tend to agree with the others here...3 years without maintenance will catch up with you on year 4 - $big time$. I'll believe the "no maintenance thing" when I see it. Changing oil isn't that tough, and for peace of mind I'd rather do it twice a year than never.<br /><br />seahorse, I didn't know you had a Yamaha F115? How do you like it?