Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

[rodbolt]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

hello<br /> Ratfish.<br /> I really have no preference. I hate to go against urban legends but 4 strokes break too. I mostly like broke motors as it means yet another paycheck. I try to tell people how to maintain the motors and rigs. I am also a lazy tech . I have about 600 rigs a year that I take care of so I would rather not have major failures. $ strokes seem to tolerate neglect a lot better than 2 strokes. but at age 5 or 6 if you have a major problem with a saltwater 4 stroke it will not be cost effective to have it repaired. I hope that will change as more get on the market. the EFI two strokes without O2 sensors work well. carbs have worked for a hundred years or so but DFI in my opinion has been an expensive consumer angering flop. so to give you a fair answer I really have no preference all seem to be excellent products I just no longer trust DFI. I hope E-Tek is all the hype says it is. will be a wonderfull product. but would I plunk my 13 thousand down or buy a pair of them ?<br /> nope<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[Tracy Coleman]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

texasduckhunter---have you got your new rig yet?<br />How about a report. <br />Backfire

 

[DMR Mechanic]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

I can see that OMC realy hurt the Johnson/Evinrude name and product.<br />The reason there was so much failier of powerheads was due to poor quality control. A lot of the blocks still had metal chips left inside and some of the other parts were not up to specs.<br />We still have some of the 1999 and 2000 Ficht 225hp's with over 500 hours on them. We did have a lot of trouble with them.<br />When Bombardier bought OMC I knew they would bring it all to the front and build the best outboards in the world. I feel confident that the E-Tec motors will prove that they are the best outboards in the world.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

For all of you who have been asking, the new E-TEC info and specs are on the Evinrude website now. Just click on the E-TEC motor.<br /><br /> http://www.evinrude.com/docs/100/0_US.htm#

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Looks like the 40 and 50 hp E-techs are heavier than many of the competetor's 4-strokes. <br /><br />Also see the 75 is a 2-star CARB rating, not a 3-star. <br /><br />Still trying to figure out the unusually high gear ratios of the 40, 50, and 60 hp at 2.67:1. Wow. <br /><br />No break-in, or maintenance for first 300 hours. Then what? <br /><br />Hope they live up to the hype. The jury's still out here.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

I was just comparing weights of the Yamaha motors and the E-TECs. I think Yamaha may have a misprint on their website on the 40hp weight of 182#, they show the 2 stroke being heavier at 189#. Honda is lighter also. Yamaha's 75 and 90 weigh in at 370#, 65# more than the E-TEC versions. Honda's offerings are around 70# higher than Evinrude. I guess it all averages out.<br /><br />According to all my sevice and sales information, all the E-TECs including the 75hp versions are EPA certified as Ultra-low-emission California rated 3-star motors. Where did you see that it wasn't?<br /><br />I think the 2004 season is going to be very interesting!

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

I think Yamaha may have a misprint on their website on the 40hp weight of 182#

Not a misprint. The F40 comes in a 15" shaft. Weight refers to the shortest shaft length available. The F40 in a 20" shaft will be under 200 lbs...same as the F30 in a 20" shaft. It doesn't matter...both are still lighter than the 30 and 40 hp E-Tech. And the E-Tech’s are 2-strokes!<br /><br />

they show the 2 stroke being heavier at 189#.

That's right. The 2-stroke is a 20" shaft. A F40 in a 20" shaft will be about 10 lbs heavier than their 40 2-stroke (see above). Besides, displacements are nearly the same.<br /><br />

Honda is lighter also.

Yes, by a considerable 35+ lbs! However, I must admit that those Honda's won't come with trim/tilt as standard. But, even with T/T, they're still lighter than the E-Tech. And the E-Tech is a 2-stroke!<br /><br />

Yamaha's 75 and 90 weigh in at 370#, 65# more than the E-TEC versions.

Again, you’re comparing a 2-stroke to a 4-stroke. Yamaha’s F75 and F90 have nearly 20% more displacement, a pressurized lubrication system with a large oil sump, overhead cam/valves, larger gear cases, etc. Oh yea...they’re proven too. If you compare them to Yamaha’s 2-strokes, the E-Tech’s are over 40 lbs heavier.<br /><br />

According to all my sevice and sales information, all the E-TECs including the 75hp versions are EPA certified as Ultra-low-emission California rated 3-star motors. Where did you see that it wasn't?

From the specifications on the last link you posted. Right at the bottom.<br /><br />My whole point (again) seahorse, is that the E-Tech is hyped as "lightweight". Yet half of their model line is heavier than other 2-strokes, and even heavier than most 4-strokes! Makes you wonder about the rest of their hype.<br /><br />BTW, any idea of what maintenance is needed after 300 hours? How much does one of those fancy spark plugs cost?<br /><br />I can tell that without owning one, or seeing how they pan out, you are already on the E-Tech bandwagon. That’s great. I hope they work out. But I’m going to wait and see first. Been there done that.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Living Up to the “Environmentally-Responsible” Pledge<br /><br />The complete line of Evinrude E-TEC engines is designed to be California Air Resources Board (CARB) 3-star compliant outboard engines. <br /><br />The above is from the link I posted a while back.<br /> http://www.evinrude.com/e-tec/background.htm

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

That link was as of February 12, 2003 when the E-Tech had not yet been CARB certified. <br /><br />I believe the engines just got CARB certified in Sept/Oct of 2003.<br /><br />It's odd that Evinrude would show the 75 hp as only a 2-star CARB rating per the specifications at their site, which you referenced. Maybe it's a misprint...maybe not. But CARB ratings were one of their biggest hypes, so you would think they'd get it right.<br /><br />You never did say what you thought about that 2.67 grear ratio. My F50 is 1.85 and even a High Thrust F50 is 2.33.

 

[Tracy Coleman]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

The 40, 50, 60, 75, 90 all have a v-4 size gearcase. The 2 cylinder models have a lower gear ratio to crank a large prop-keeping prop pitch sizes in a more common range-same as Mercury and the rest, so a 140 I/O runs a similar pitch-in general-as 250 I/O. Otherwise you would have extreme pitch differences, easier to vary the gear ratio and use mostly similar props on average size-for the HP-boats.<br />Backfire

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Backfire said it all. The lower ratio will also help performance on acceleration according to the factory.<br /><br />Since they will be used frequently on pontoon boat applications like the T50 etc. they have a new prop for 'toons that has an exhaust bypass for full reverse thrust. 2 additional sizes will be available soon.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

<br /><br />

Backfire - The 2 cylinder models have a lower gear ratio...

seahorse - ...The lower ratio will also help performance

Lower ratio?? The E-Tech's 2.67 ratio is a higher ratio than 1.85! A lower gear ratio equates to higher gearing. The E-techs high gear ratio of 2.67 equates to gearing down, but not a lower gear ratio.<br /><br />What this means is that the E-Tech's engine must turn 2.67 times for each revolution of the prop. In comparison, the Yamaha must turn only 1.85 times for each revolution of the prop. Both engines operate at the same RPM.<br /><br />

...keeping prop pitch sizes in a more common range-same as Mercury and the rest...

Huh? No other outboard, including Mercury, runs ratios this high. <br /><br />Are you suggesting that the higher ratio is used in order for the smaller outboards to run on similar pitch props as the larger outboards? I hope not! <br /><br />Gearing should be a reflection of the engine’s performance (torque, rpm, engine life, and efficiency), not a compromise for consolidating prop designs. <br /><br />

so a 140 I/O runs a similar pitch-in general-as 250 I/O. Otherwise you would have extreme pitch differences

Huh? A 140 and a 250 running similar pitches? <br /><br />

easier to vary the gear ratio and use mostly similar props on average size-for the HP-boats

Again, this makes no sense. An outboard's gear ratio is determined by the performance of the engine. Prop sizes are varied to fine tune that performance for individual applications.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Lets run some numbers....<br /><br />Two outboards. One an E-Tech 50 hp. The other a Yamaha F50 hp. Lets say both operate at 5500 rpm for this example (they both have a rpm range of 5000-6000). Lets say both have a 12 pitch prop, no slip.<br /><br />E-Tech:<br /><br />5500 rev/min divided by the 2.67 gear ratio, means that the prop speed is 2060 rev/min.<br /><br />2060 rev/min X 12" (pitch)/rev means that the prop goes 24720"/min.<br /><br />Converting to mph, 24720"/min X 60 min/hr X 1 foot/12" divided by 5280 feet/mile equals 23.4 mph.<br /><br />Now the F50:<br /><br />5500 rev/min divided by the 1.85 gear ratio, means that the prop speed is 2973 rev/min.<br /><br />2973 rev/min X 12" (pitch)/rev means that the prop goes 35676"/min.<br /><br />Converting to mph, 35676"/min X 60 min/hr X 1 foot/12" divided by 5280 feet/mile equals 33.8 mph.<br /><br />For the same pitch prop, the Yamaha is over 10 mph faster.<br /><br />The E-Tech, with its high gear ratio, would have to jump from a 12 pitch to a 17 pitch to equal that speed!<br /><br />And with a 17 pitch, what happens to acceleration?<br /><br />It's just not a friendly ratio IMO, and it's quite odd.

 

[Tracy Coleman]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Gosh, that put the prop pitch into that popular size catagory, and you did it all by your self.<br />A little learning is a dangerous thing.<br />Backfire

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

that put the prop pitch into that popular size catagory

Please explain.....

 

[kenneths]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

Forktail, the hype on the gearcases is that they will all use simular, more popular size props to eliminate SOME of the guess work, in this case, yes, the 17" is more popular than a 12"....

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

The 12-pitch/17-pitch was an example I pulled out of the air. The fact those pitches fall within the V-4 gearcase's prop range is irrelevant. With the high gear ratio, I could've just as well made a pitch example that was too big for the gearcase to handle. <br /><br />The point was to address the extremely high, and uncommon, 2.67 gear ratio. Modular proping could be used for any gear ratio...which brings us back to the question of why it's such a high ratio?<br /><br />

Gosh, that put the prop pitch into that popular size catagory, and you did it all by your self.<br />A little learning is a dangerous thing.<br />Backfire

You must've missed the part where both outboards had a 12 pitch prop running at the same max rpm. Increasing to a 17 pitch would drop RPM. Just because a prop fits on the outboard, or is a popular size, doesn't mean it's going to operate at the proper RPM. <br /><br />There's no way around it. The uncommon gear ratio results in a very slow prop, no matter what pitch you put on. Just trying to figure out why the engine likes a slow prop.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

quote from Forktail:<br />Lower ratio?? The E-Tech's 2.67 ratio is a higher ratio than 1.85! A lower gear ratio equates to higher gearing. The E-techs high gear ratio of 2.67 equates to gearing down, but not a lower gear ratio.<br />---------------------------------------<br /><br />In a transmission what kind of ratio does LOW gear have? What ratio does HIGH gear have?

 

[kenneths]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

2.67 TO 1, and 1.85 TO 1...........2.67 is lower ratio engine turn 2.67 times to get 1 revolution from the prop allowing MUCH GREATER TORQUE to spin a LARGER prop...... <br />Oh Yea, how many V4's are using 12" props???????<br />15", 17", 19" would be the popular sizes....you picking 12" just happened to work out JUST LIKE THEY INTENDED........I think that is what was meant by "figuring it out"....I don't think insult was intended.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Evinrude e-tec or Yamaha 4 Stroke

In a transmission what kind of ratio does LOW gear have? What ratio does HIGH gear have?

Are you serious? <br /><br />A 2.67 ratio is higher than a 1.85 ratio. Low gearing requires a high gear ratio. High gearing requires a low gear ratio.<br /><br />A 4.10 ratio differential in an automobile will be geared lower than a 3.73 ratio. A ratio of 1 would be an example of direct drive, or high gear. A ratio of .8 would be an example of overdrive.<br /><br />You're getting low gearing and low ratios confused.