Evinrude ETEC 130 using Amsoil HPI oil

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Wow, did you realize what my post said?

Yes, I went to research the same info and it all lead back to amsoil distributors. It is similar to any advertising such as Chevy or Ford having the best truck.

Glad you are so good at guessing

Captain Vermont - Will you please play fair? Of course I read your post and it's quite obvious you're trying to submarine me. Get your facts straight. The information I was talking about is not available to the public and you did not find it. Now will you please go back and read my posting to your first posting? I specifically stated what I was talking about did not have anything to do with advertising. What you read was standard marketing information. The information I was talking about came out in a monthly newsletter to those that subscribe. I will continue to work on getting you the information you so desire to read but will no doubt still deny. Update: The VP of Product Development is contemplating doing a more comprehensive writeup and I'm assuming this will be made available to the general public or at least the dealers. I promise you I will do everything I can to get them to do that writeup. In the meantime I've already published an article in my website based on what was written in the January newsletter. Just as a teaser, the test vessel used with the 2 Evinrude Etec's was one of the Sea Tow boats and Intertek out of San Antonio did the teardown/evaluation. While you're waiting for me to get more info please google these 2 outfits...they're for real too. By the way, you guys in Vermont have the best Maple Syrup on earth!

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Now I am even more curious ...lol I need to know this: Was the motor using the Amsoil HPI ajusted for the XD-100 brp oil usage ? or for the Xd-50 ?
I think I have read somewhere that if the E-tech motor is adjusted for Xd-100 there would be no substitute if you ran out of oil ... but in oposition if adjusted for Xd-50 then other Tc-w3 oils can be used safely to get you out of trouble.

Tx for letting me know ... I am an oil fanatic LOL

LOL - Isn't it crazy? I'm an oil fanatic too, lol. We should start a club. We could call it Oil Fanatics of America.

I believe you are correct in saying that when a motor is set for the lean-mode oil setting then you should not run anything but XD-100 or HPI which are both high quality FULL Synthetics. However, it's also my understanding that when the ETEC runs out of oil the electronics limit the running rpm allowing you to run the motor for up to 6 hours continuously which means there is enough oil in the system to safely operate the motor for 6 hrs and in most cases should get you home. I would do everything possible to keep from contaminating my motor with XD-50 or worse yet some cheapo grade of a TCW3 rated oil. However, if worse came to worse I would use whatever I had to keep me going if that's what it took to get out of a jamb. I doubt any serious damage would occur at low power settings.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Nobody has commented on my video. Have any of you guys watched it? I really didn't intend for this to go into an oil related topic...simply wanted to share a video I produced of my new ETEC running on an Amsoil product. I gotta say for those of you that are into outboards, the new Evinrudes are awesome. Are there any Mercury Optimax guys out there? Sure would like to hear from you and how you guys like your motors.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Yes, I read the same items on the net and they were all originated by amsoil distributors ........... I could see allot of passing of information that cite the same test however.......here is the amsoil pdf link about the test http://www.amsoil.com/International/Documents/Articles/hp_Injector_Tech-Talk_2011.pdf As far as I understand....if you are programmed to run a lean mix then the amsoil and the evinrude brand both perform the same. It just tells me the amsoil is meeting the same requirements.

I just equate the tests similar to the "oil additive" torture tests they used to show on TV.

Significant testing should show horsepower gains, real world wear down number's and hopefully sincere long term tests. I raced a hydroplane with a 50's 4 cylinder merc that had pistons and rings that appeared brand new 50+ years later. Should I equate that to the oil mix or the racing av gas....... or sound maintenance.

So if your pennies want to go to amsoil then so be it Now here is a good question to pose to the oil people........ what if they are mixed in the tank? Will they mix or are you dedicated to using one brand?

Thanks for the syrup plug! Yes my inlaws make a bunch every year and about 50% of what they make is donated to our troops who are deployed.

 

[BonairII]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

If spent big bucks for a new engine, I would be following ALL manufacturers recommendations to the letter during the warranty period!

Even if the OP is correct and the Amsoil is in fact better....he's still going to have to go through a huge hassle trying to get free warranty service if he has an oil related motor failure IMO.

I don't believe for a minute that Amsoil is just going to cut him a check for his motor without forcing him to PROVE that the Amsoil caused the failure.

Any real or perceived 'advantage' of the Amsoil will be quickly lost if the motor fails and the OP has to fight tooth and nail to get someone to pay for his motor.

JMO

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

The way I interpret the report in the PDF is not that amsoil is better but is equal and usable as a working substitute ......

As I mentioned above...... I would be concerned on the mixing of brands.

 

[aerobat]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Nobody has commented on my video. Have any of you guys watched it? I really didn't intend for this to go into an oil related topic...simply wanted to share a video I produced of my new ETEC running on an Amsoil product. I gotta say for those of you that are into outboards, the new Evinrudes are awesome. Are there any Mercury Optimax guys out there? Sure would like to hear from you and how you guys like your motors.

what should we comment ? you WOT an 130 hp motor and thats it. a nice engine, but my V6 ficht ram has more punch and a clearly better sound. beyound that the etecs are very good !

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Gee, it sounds like Stromzilla works for Amsoil or is at least tightly affiliated with it. That explains a lot.

Amsoil should work to get the TCW-III certification, and be done with it. It would cut down on a lot of controversy, and would save me from hearing that "Amsoil is so much better/more advanced/greatly exceeds the TCW-III certification, it is beneath them to try to achieve it" or other such garbage.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Gee, it sounds like Stromzilla works for Amsoil or is at least tightly affiliated with it. That explains a lot.

Amsoil should work to get the TCW-III certification, and be done with it. It would cut down on a lot of controversy, and would save me from hearing that "Amsoil is so much better/more advanced/greatly exceeds the TCW-III certification, it is beneath them to try to achieve it" or other such garbage.

ETECS and other engines that are running at 100:1 ratios (or close to it) run on the ragged edge IMHO.........when they're under warranty, you're "covered" for the most part.

An engine rebuild or replacement would be covered by BRP if there was a "failure".

But if you're running an oil on the "lean" setting and they can prove you didn't use their "pet" oil and there's no approved (by BRP/Rude) substitute, I really doubt they'll say "Oh, you're using AMSOIL, no problem, we'll buy you a latte while you wait AND we'll still cover your engine"

And what about certain cases where the engine is "out of Warranty" and BRP still decides to cover or partially cover the failure? Many manufacturers do this . But they almost NEVER do it if the owner didn't follow the their recommendations for service, operation, maintenance, etc if they can prove it.

If there's no approved substitute for XD-100 and you want to run "lean" you probably should run XD-100.

I wonder if BRP just flatly refuses to "approve" Amsoil because they're making so much money on XD-100 that they simply just don't want to "share"?

The Johnny-Rude's seem somewhat silent on this ..........or is Amsoil just not asking the question publicly because they know what the (official) answer will be?

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Yes, I read the same items on the net and they were all originated by amsoil distributors ........... I could see allot of passing of information that cite the same test however.......here is the amsoil pdf link about the test http://www.amsoil.com/International/Documents/Articles/hp_Injector_Tech-Talk_2011.pdf As far as I understand....if you are programmed to run a lean mix then the amsoil and the evinrude brand both perform the same. It just tells me the amsoil is meeting the same requirements.

I just equate the tests similar to the "oil additive" torture tests they used to show on TV.

Significant testing should show horsepower gains, real world wear down number's and hopefully sincere long term tests. I raced a hydroplane with a 50's 4 cylinder merc that had pistons and rings that appeared brand new 50+ years later. Should I equate that to the oil mix or the racing av gas....... or sound maintenance.

So if your pennies want to go to amsoil then so be it Now here is a good question to pose to the oil people........ what if they are mixed in the tank? Will they mix or are you dedicated to using one brand?

Thanks for the syrup plug! Yes my inlaws make a bunch every year and about 50% of what they make is donated to our troops who are deployed.

That's the link and that is the testing I've been talking about. Now what I'm hoping for is for them to provide more comprehensive insight to the test and more so on the evaluation. But I'm confused on your comment regarding an oil additive torture test? I would conclude that 534 hours of running and of that time 240 hours was involved with towing and/or serious hardcore running is some serious running. Granted it's not the life of an engine but then again that timeframe is not an average run for the run of the mill outboard. I think the real point of the entire test was to see how the product stood up to a known product that is considered to be a top notch oil and of course I'm referring to XD-100. Identical motors running the same application side by side...it doesn't get any better in doing a comparison/evaluation. By the way one of the categories was the wear factor on both motors. What are you talking about in getting horsepower gains? Maybe if Amsoil wants to compare it's product to a lowline TCW3 but that's not the case with them going head to head with what some consider to be the best oil on the market. Can't pass judgement on your racing application without knowing more specifics. But I will say this and I've written an article in my website about it - I too had a hydroplane some years ago with a Mercury Mk18 and for 3 summers I ran the snot out of it using good old Shell non-detergent mineral oil at the rate of 1 quart in 5 gallons. Ran it until the motor quit...stopped running due to a loss of ignition. Ignorance was my middle name back then...wouldn't do it today. But some would argue the mineral oil proved to work. Of course it worked but it didn't prove anything without a teardown other than it lasted those specific 3 seasons and held together. Can almost gaurantee it that the rings would've eventually siezed up just like my 79 Evinrude 115 did with 3 out of 4 rings while running on a lowline TCW3 oil no doubt. Mixing oils in general is not recommended although with today's oils it is a non-issue. Not sure why you'd want to mix other than to switch over to something else. And if you still are in doubt then mix the 2 and see for yourself...it'll be fine. It's a TCW3 requirement these days. That's awesome about donating to the troops. And I'll bet the syrup is fantastic!

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

The way I interpret the report in the PDF is not that amsoil is better but is equal and usable as a working substitute ......

As I mentioned above...... I would be concerned on the mixing of brands.

Agreed! And that's what I've been saying. Although I did mention I was told on the side that there were a couple of categories where they exceeded the XD-100 but my perception was that it wasn't overly significant. That's one of the reasons I want a more comprehensive writeup. I like the details. All in all the 2 oils were fairly even which I think says a lot because I've always felt that XD-100 was THE oil to go with regardless of what oil-mode delivery setting was being used. Like I said before, mixing these days is a non issue but if you're concerned then trial a mix with whatever you plan to switch over to.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Gee, it sounds like Stromzilla works for Amsoil or is at least tightly affiliated with it. That explains a lot.

Amsoil should work to get the TCW-III certification, and be done with it. It would cut down on a lot of controversy, and would save me from hearing that "Amsoil is so much better/more advanced/greatly exceeds the TCW-III certification, it is beneath them to try to achieve it" or other such garbage.

Well Mr. Chris I don't work for Amsoil but I do work for Navistar. Is that ok with you? If you can't comment or have a meaningful discussion to this thread then please go away and find another thread/posting to ***** about. You're typical of nothing more than someone that wants to be disruptive. You're not worth my time.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

ETECS and other engines that are running at 100:1 ratios (or close to it) run on the ragged edge IMHO.........when they're under warranty, you're "covered" for the most part.

An engine rebuild or replacement would be covered by BRP if there was a "failure".

But if you're running an oil on the "lean" setting and they can prove you didn't use their "pet" oil and there's no approved (by BRP/Rude) substitute, I really doubt they'll say "Oh, you're using AMSOIL, no problem, we'll buy you a latte while you wait AND we'll still cover your engine"

And what about certain cases where the engine is "out of Warranty" and BRP still decides to cover or partially cover the failure? Many manufacturers do this . But they almost NEVER do it if the owner didn't follow the their recommendations for service, operation, maintenance, etc if they can prove it.

If there's no approved substitute for XD-100 and you want to run "lean" you probably should run XD-100.

I wonder if BRP just flatly refuses to "approve" Amsoil because they're making so much money on XD-100 that they simply just don't want to "share"?

The Johnny-Rude's seem somewhat silent on this ..........or is Amsoil just not asking the question publicly because they know what the (official) answer will be?

I'm not into Latte's so I would pass on the latte. Why in the world should BRP go out and qualify an Amsoil product? Or any other product for that matter? Just think about the associated cost in qualifying another product. I really don't understand where you're coming from on that. It's a waste of their time. And I do plan to run the lean-mode and I don't have plans to use XD-100. Do you think that'll be ok? Silent on WHAT! Amsoil not asking questions publicly? What are you talking about? What is the big deal here? They went head to head with the best and it came out even. They have publicly stated they'll back their oil. I'm going to go with the lean-mode. I'm so confused. What day is it? Are we still talking about outboards? Are we having fun? I love this forum. Some of you guys are so colorful.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

I really don't understand where you're coming from on that. It's a waste of their time. And I do plan to run the lean-mode and I don't have plans to use XD-100. Do you think that'll be ok? Silent on WHAT! Amsoil not asking questions publicly? What are you talking about? What is the big deal here? They went head to head with the best and it came out even. They have publicly stated they'll back their oil.

I thought I made myself fairly clear.

If I had a $25,000 250hp ETEC, and it was new enough to be under warranty, I wouldn't run using 100:1 "lean-mode" unless I was using XD-100.

If I got written approval from BRP that they would still cover my warranty using a different oil in 100:1 lean mode, then it wouldn't be a problem would it?

Some people are very emotional about what brand of oil they use. Look at all the forums around the internet. People get into fights over the oil they use and there's even AMSOIL discussion sections for people who love Amsoil.

I don't care whos name is on the bottle of oil. I care more about the the manufacturer covering the warranty. And that's a showstopper for me no matter how many tell me how great it is.


What you do with your ETEC is of course your business.

Knock yourself out! (figuratively of course!!)


Cheers,


Rick

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

If spent big bucks for a new engine, I would be following ALL manufacturers recommendations to the letter during the warranty period!

Even if the OP is correct and the Amsoil is in fact better....he's still going to have to go through a huge hassle trying to get free warranty service if he has an oil related motor failure IMO.

I don't believe for a minute that Amsoil is just going to cut him a check for his motor without forcing him to PROVE that the Amsoil caused the failure.

Any real or perceived 'advantage' of the Amsoil will be quickly lost if the motor fails and the OP has to fight tooth and nail to get someone to pay for his motor.

JMO

I respect that for a response. I find it interesting at how all the focus is on the what if's and nobody with the exception of a couple have given Amsoil the nod for doing what they did. Has any other oil manufacturer taken the time, money and effort to do what Amsoil did? Does anyone else have the balls to test their oil in a high-tech Evinrude to see if their oil can cut the mustard? Knowing that a direct injection motor runs very hot, uses specfically injected oil points in key locations and can run in a lean-mode setup...are there any other takers? I think it's awesome. And I'm going to go with the program and I'll provide the feedback at my own risk of Amsoil stiffing me in a catastrophic situation. However, as I said that situation is so remote that I don't even think twice about it. Don't you think it's more likely that a failure will be due to something else? I mean if the oil wasn't going to lubricate don't you think it would've raised it's ugly head either with a total failure or showing evidence of a coming failure during the evaluation of the test they ran? I really do sleep at night with this concept. It's almost as if you're willing a failure. You actually want to see my engine fail with me. I'm sorry to disappoint you but should there be a failure it won't be a result of a failure in the oil's ability to lubricate...sorry. I know this oil too well plus seeing the outcome of the testing they did I'm good to go. But I will keep you posted continuing to tell you what you don't want to hear.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

I thought I made myself fairly clear.

If I had a $25,000 250hp ETEC, and it was new enough to be under warranty, I wouldn't run using 100:1 "lean-mode" unless I was using XD-100.

If I got written approval from BRP that they would still cover my warranty using a different oil in 100:1 lean mode, then it wouldn't be a problem would it?

Some people are very emotional about what brand of oil they use. Look at all the forums around the internet. People get into fights over the oil they use and there's even AMSOIL discussion sections for people who love Amsoil.

I don't care whos name is on the bottle of oil. I care more about the the manufacturer covering the warranty. And that's a showstopper for me no matter how many tell me how great it is.


What you do with your ETEC is of course your business.

Knock yourself out! (figuratively of course!!)


Cheers,


Rick

Gee Rick - Think you're getting a bit emotional over this? I really don't care what you do with your $25,000 etec. Please...knock yourself out. I simply posted a video of my $10,000 etec running on Amsoil and wanted to share it with you and our iboat buds. And I only got 1 response on the video from some bozo with a Ficht engine telling me his wholeshot is better than mine with his V6. Now that was an earth shattering comment. Here I am ready to take my video to Hollywood, wanting to hear back from fellow boating buds and all I get is 1 goofy response on the video and a ton of negativity on the oil without cause? What's wrong with this picture? And now you're getting emotional about what you want to use with your high dollar etec? Are you trying to steel the show here? Not one single time did I tell anyone what they should run. I'm simply telling what I'm running. Why so much push-back? Are you guys afraid I might have success? What is it...seriously? I'm an engineer and I'm trying to understand.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

LOL - Isn't it crazy? I'm an oil fanatic too, lol. We should start a club. We could call it Oil Fanatics of America.

I believe you are correct in saying that when a motor is set for the lean-mode oil setting then you should not run anything but XD-100 or HPI which are both high quality FULL Synthetics. However, it's also my understanding that when the ETEC runs out of oil the electronics limit the running rpm allowing you to run the motor for up to 6 hours continuously which means there is enough oil in the system to safely operate the motor for 6 hrs and in most cases should get you home. I would do everything possible to keep from contaminating my motor with XD-50 or worse yet some cheapo grade of a TCW3 rated oil. However, if worse came to worse I would use whatever I had to keep me going if that's what it took to get out of a jamb. I doubt any serious damage would occur at low power settings.

I use both HPI and Saber with three different motors. I was under the impression that when the E-Tech was ajusted for lean mode (xd-100) it would have required an 100:1 mix capable oil such as the Amsoil Saber to match the lean ajustement, and therefore if ajusted for the XD-50 would have had it's equal with the HPI which is formulated for a 50:1 mix ratio. Your statement (XD-100 or HPI) kind of proved me wrong but also rises a question for my personal usage or Amsoil outboard oil. Would your experimentation mean that the HPI oil could be used at a leaner mix than what Amsoil recommends ? (50:1 premix)

Also and E-Tech fanatic but unfortunatly do not own one. (yet) LOL

 

[BonairII]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

I'm sorry to disappoint you but should there be a failure it won't be a result of a failure in the oil's ability to lubricate

I agree. Doubtful that ANY 'top quality' oil will be responsible for an engine failure.

What I DO suspect...is that if something fails and a manufacturer decides that they don't feel like honoring a so-called 'warranty issue', they can point to the fact that the owner used a diff oil than recommended. It certainly doesn't mean that they will automatically 'get away with' that excuse, but they sure can make it a pain-in-the-arse to get warranty service.

IMO, as long as you keep detailed service logs/receipts and do all scheduled maintenance....you shouldn't have any problems with warranty service, should you need it.

In the event of a motor failure, I would assume the manufacturers would be more concerned with the 'condition' of the oil, rather than it's brand name.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

In the event of a motor failure, I would assume the manufacturers would be more concerned with the 'condition' of the oil, rather than it's brand name.

Well, in a nutshell, all one has to do is ask them.

I'm sure BRP will respond.

Be sure to tell them the dealer programmed the engine to operate at the 100:1 rate, and you didn't use XD-100.

It'll either be "YES" or "NO" and It won't take an engineer to interpret it their answer!

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

I would follow Evinrude's recommendation for oil used in your ETEC.

However, if you're programmed for the lean-mode oil delivery and using Amsoil during a failure it'll have to be proved it was a failure in the lubrication for BRP to not cover it, and Amsoil will stand behind it.

Are you going to bet your 2010 130 ETEC on that....

Using ATF and the severe duty service schedule recommended by ^^^ that company I lost a transmission (burned up needle bearings which lead to catastrophic failure) and they denied warranty coverage. They said the ATF sample from the failed transmission was still OK for continued service. Testing was done at their facility. I send another sample of that same fluid to an independent oil testing facility and the independent companies test showed that the fluid was oxidized and that the ATF had been run far too long. The transmission fluid was within ^^^ that companies severe duty service schedule, but almost 15K miles past the OEM's service schedule............

Yes, this wasn't and outboard and I wasn't using HPI, but if you feel ^^^ they will warranty and pay for your broke motor, go ahead and run the HPI....

I learned my lesson The hard way :facepalm: