Evinrude ETEC 130 using Amsoil HPI oil

[Chris1956]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Strom, Sorry you consider my posts disruptive. They certainely were not meant to be. Whereas you present an emotional case for Amsoil's superiority, you present no evidence other then your willingness to use it, some advertising from Amsoil and your big proof is that the e-TEC didn't blow up. We have all heard from Amsoil-enthusastics before on this forum, and they usually get huffy and disappear when asked about any proof, independent results etc.

What you run in your motor is your business. My wish is for folks reading these posts to get an understanding for the quality of the evidence you cite. I think it is of low-quality.

Finally, I would be real surprized if BRP would cover a lubrication-related failure on an e-TEC using Amsoil.

 

[Sprky]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Oil threads are always funny chit.

Ya'll take a break, I'm out of popcorn!

 

[Sprky]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

OK I'm back, you can resume......................................

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Finally, I would be real surprized if BRP would cover a lubrication-related failure on an e-TEC using Amsoil.

Yeah. Me too. I just got off the phone with an "Authorized" Evinrude dealer in Tacoma Wa.

He told me that if they program the engine to run in 100:1 lean mode, and I use any oil other than XD-100 oil and there is a problem "You are on your own" His words.

I don't think it can be any clearer than that.

Now in defense of Amsoil, they DO provide a written warranty indicating:

Their liability is limited to replacing the defective lubricant,

And the cost, including labor and materials, to repair, or at the option of AMSOIL INC., to replace damaged components
lubricated by AMSOIL products according to AMSOIL recommendations.



Read it very carefully.

There are 10 conditions where "THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED" and 9 additional conditions where "AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE"

OK I'm back, you can resume......................................

Ok, here you go!!


So lessee,

Fictional Scenario #1

You have an ETEC engine you bought new......it's a year old, (2yrs of warranty left) It's programmed to run XD-100 in "lean mode" AND you're running XD-100.

You're out one fine early JUNE morning on the lake doing a WOT run to your favorite fishing hole and you seize a piston. Catastrophic damage.

You motor back on the "kicker" ......You stop at the dealer on the way home (it's a weekday playing hooky huh?) and drop the engine off. They call you in the next few days and the dealer says the It was a plugged oil passage-- widget!!....... BRP factory REP authorized replacing the entire power head. WOOHOO!! (that's what I would expect)

Dealer says they'll have the (new) engine back on your boat in a couple of weeks.



Fictional Scenario #2

Same as above.......EXCEPT you've been running Amsoil super secret 100:1 2cy oil after 100:1 programming by the same dealer (who said you MUST use XD-100)

You drop the engine off at the dealer and a couple of days later they call you and tell you that the BRP rep says BRP will not cover the loss because it's clear that you weren't running XD-100 and the cost to replace the piston, and repair the cyl damage will be around $3,000 (you don't ask what the price of a new power-head is....because you know that would be a fortune)

You ask what caused the problem......the dealer indicates that it appears that it was a oil passage-widget that may have been plugged etc. They aren't sure if it was due to a defect in the widget or the non-approved oil. Doesn't matter, they can still fix the engine and have you back on the water in a month or so after they get all the parts to rebuild the engine and it depends on the local machine shop because they think they might need to sleeve the cyl etc etc etc.......

You read your Amsoil warranty, and it appears that they might cover it but if it really was a plugged oil "widget", they might not........ (#9 in the second list of ways Amsoil gets out of not paying!!) .................. Also, you cannot find the receipt for the AMSOIL you bought because you paid cash for it and the ETEC uses so little oil......... it was last year when you bought it!! :facepalm: (5.c.(d) in the first list of hoops you have you jump through when you file a claim.)

You ask the dealer you dropped the engine off at, if they saved the oil in the tank, and the say what oil? (you need at least 8oz of oil to ship to Amsoil for "testing" )..... 5.c (a) in the list of hoops.




Now, in my fictional "story" above, I indicate where some items in Amsoil requirements are not followed.

To be fair......... I have to assume that most people would follow the warranty requirements to the letter!

You'd have to, because Amsoil could deny the claim if you didn't do any ONE of them!



Also, we're talking about an engine that is STILL COVERED by the OEM warranty. After the warranty is up any oil related failure would NOT of course be covered by the OEM.

.................REGARDLESS of who's oil you were using!.....................

BUT if you are using Amsoil they *MIGHT* cover it!! .............but ONLY if you can prove the oil "caused" it....................


Good luck on that.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

HT has a very valid point in his tail of woe above.

To be fair......... I have to assume that most people would follow the warranty requirements to the letter!

You'd have to, because Amsoil could deny the claim if you didn't do any ONE of them!

I think that most people wouldn't be able to provide everything required by ^^^ that company for warranty reimbursement, missing documentation, unable to return failed part, no oil sample, etc. How many people are going to be able to ship an entire engine or transmission to Superior, WI,,, or want to pay $300-500 in hopes that they would be reimbursed by the warranty.

For my claim against ^^^ said company's oil and warranty reimbursement. I DID have all of their requirements for warranty reimbursement followed to a "T"! All documentation of when the fluid was purchased, mileage, pictures, failed planetary gear assembly, needle bearings and oil sample returned to ^^^ said company. Even with that, they said, sorry Charlie, not our fault. Even though independent testing proved their fluid went bad.

I could have fought it in court, but who wants to drive up to Superior, WI to recover a couple thousand dollars. It's stipulated somewhere that Superior, WI is the only place you can sue them. Well not in those exact terms...

*EDIT This warranty shall be governed, interpreted and construed by, and in accordance with, the laws of the State of Wisconsin in the United States of America.*


Good luck with the ETEC, no matter what oil you choose to run......

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

HT has a very valid point in his tail of woe above.

Remember my "tail of WOE" Is admittedly a TALL TALE! It's fiction.

ANY ONE is welcome to give their actual experience.

I suspect that if you ask the Oil manufacturer in question, they'll probably NOT reveal if someone actually has had a claim and they paid to fix their engine, transmission, etc.

They only show the people who are "happy and have never had a "problem"!!


You can always use the oil I use.........in my "signature" below.......

 

[pecheux]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

From what I learned from local E-Tech owners is that Brp will be easier to deal with in case of motor failure related to oil type usage when the motor is adjusted at the XD-50 mode. I read that they would be hard to deal with when the motor is adjusted for the XD-100 lean mix if the owner uses anything else but their XD-100 oil. Seems to me spending a few xtra $$ for the Xd-100 brp oil is meaningless considering the cost of the motor itself ... but hey that's me and I am just sharing opinions.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

The 100:1 efficiency is the main selling point of the ETECs. to me it's the whole point of having one. I would think that everyone would expect to be able to run it at that rate.

I just did a little search for both oils.

Seems you can buy 3 gallons of XD-50 for $64.95

3 gallons of the XD-100 is $95.95

If you run the boat enough to use that 3 gallons (of XD-50) ................ AND then you have the engine programmed for XD-100 and you use XD-100 it wouldn't really cost any more even if it ran at 70:1 (than using XD-50) . Theoretically at least, the engine would only use about 1.5 gallons of oil (costing only about $45-50 using the above prices.....)

..........evidently the ETECs don't ALWAYS run at 100:1

The best retail price I can find for Amsoil HPI is somewhere around $35/gallon.

They also indicate that if you're a preferred customer you get it for 25-30% off but I couldn't tell if that was the price above or you would get that much off the above price.

But in view of the previous "discussion" and what the BRP dealer told me today, I would program the EMM to use the HPI at the 50:1 rate.

 

[aerobat]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

i fail to see the general sense of this thread. stromzilla is impressed by using amsoil oil in his engine and thats it. he can do- it is his outboard. when its a brand designed for direct injection two strokes most probably nothing will happen and the engine will perform nor better neither worse than on evinrude oil. especially when matched for lean burn he does it at own risk, no question.

i personally doubt that evinrude makes the oil by itself and maybe the evinrude oil is produced by some raffinery and bottled under several names- but using the evinrude bottle you are covered by warranty.

what amsoil oil are you using exactly ?

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

OIL REQUIREMENTS
Evinrude/Johnson Brand Oils
Evinrude/Johnson outboard oils are formulated to give best engine performance while controlling piston and combustion chamber
deposits, providing superior lubrication, and
ensuring maximum spark plug life.
The following outboard oils are recommended
for use in your Evinrude E-TEC outboard:
? Evinrude/Johnson XD100;
? Evinrude/Johnson XD50; or
? Evinrude/Johnson XD30.
Evinrude/Johnson XD100 Oil
Evinrude/Johnson XD100 oil is preferred
for your Evinrude E-TEC outboard. This
synthetic formula oil provides uncompromised lubrication and superior performance,
even in extreme conditions?especially in
cold temperatures down to 0?F (-17?C).
If requested, an authorized dealer can program your Evinrude E-TEC outboard EMM for
the exclusive use of Evinrude/Johnson
XD100. Only an authorized Evinrude dealer can program your outboard for this optional benefit. Oil consumption is reduced if
the outboard is programmed for exclusive use
of Evinrude/Johnson XD100 as compared to
using a conventional oil. The XD100 oil setting is not available on all models.
IMPORTANT: If your EMM has been programmed for Evinrude/Johnson XD100,
DO NOT use any other oil unless in an emergency. If Evinrude/Johnson XD100 is temporarily unavailable, a one-time-only use of an
oil that meets NMMA TC-W3 certification
standards is allowed. If you discontinue using
Evinrude/Johnson XD100, you MUST first return to your Dealer to have the EMM reprogrammed back to the original factory setting.
Other Oils
If Evinrude/Johnson brand oils are not available, you must use an oil that meets NMMA
TC-W3 certification standards.
Failure to follow oil specifications could void
the engine warranty if a lubrication-related
failure occurs.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

If spent big bucks for a new engine, I would be following ALL manufacturers recommendations to the letter during the warranty period!

Even if the OP is correct and the Amsoil is in fact better....he's still going to have to go through a huge hassle trying to get free warranty service if he has an oil related motor failure IMO.
I don't believe for a minute that Amsoil is just going to cut him a check for his motor without forcing him to PROVE that the Amsoil caused the failure.

Any real or perceived 'advantage' of the Amsoil will be quickly lost if the motor fails and the OP has to fight tooth and nail to get someone to pay for his motor.

JMO

BonairII - I think that is outstanding advice and you should follow it.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Gee, it sounds like Stromzilla works for Amsoil or is at least tightly affiliated with it. That explains a lot.

Amsoil should work to get the TCW-III certification, and be done with it. It would cut down on a lot of controversy, and would save me from hearing that "Amsoil is so much better/more advanced/greatly exceeds the TCW-III certification, it is beneath them to try to achieve it" or other such garbage.

If you don't mind - please keep the personal crap to yourself. It serves no purpose. Normally I would ignore your jibberish, however, you bring up an interesting point that I would like to address. All Amsoil marine lubrication products have the TCW3 logo where and when appropriate and that includes the HPI product I'm using in my ETEC. However, now I'm wondering if they actually conducted the TCW3 test or did they assume it based on other testing? My understanding was that a company had to conduct the test using a given product in order to display the logo on a that product...I'll get back on that topic.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

ETECS and other engines that are running at 100:1 ratios (or close to it) run on the ragged edge IMHO.........when they're under warranty, you're "covered" for the most part.

I can at least share a part of your holy opinion. Direct Injection engines as a whole run closer to the edge...that's a given. But then so does your car engine. Any engine that is going to run as efficient and clean as today's modern 2 and 4-stroke engines will have to run closer to the edge. The enabler is the computer making constant adjustments to keep it in a range. To say these engines run on the ragged edge...I don't buy it at least from the way I interpret the saying. Here's the real deal. Evinrude is in the business to make money. Why would they put themselves in a position with so little leeway that would cause the bottomline to get raised due to high warranty issues? It comes down to risk managment and they know how to play the game. For "Ragged Edge" talk to a person who hops-up their engine for racing...now that is "Ragged Edge". Our out of the box engines are designed to go thousands of hours without hassles and that includes when running in the lean-mode oil setup...count on it.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

I use both HPI and Saber with three different motors. I was under the impression that when the E-Tech was ajusted for lean mode (xd-100) it would have required an 100:1 mix capable oil such as the Amsoil Saber to match the lean ajustement, and therefore if ajusted for the XD-50 would have had it's equal with the HPI which is formulated for a 50:1 mix ratio. Your statement (XD-100 or HPI) kind of proved me wrong but also rises a question for my personal usage or Amsoil outboard oil. Would your experimentation mean that the HPI oil could be used at a leaner mix than what Amsoil recommends ? (50:1 premix)

Also and E-Tech fanatic but unfortunatly do not own one. (yet) LOL

The only thing that BRP pushes when having the oil pump adjusted for the lean-mode delivery is that their XD-100 be used. The main reason for this is the XD-100 has superior flow characteristics over the XD-50 because of the basestock being a full synthetic. Did you read about the XD-50 causing shut-downs? In cold weather it was happening.

DO NOT use Saber Outboard oil in any oil injection setup. It's designed to be used as a pre-mix only.

Your making a comparison that is apples to oranges. First off I want to dispell the idea that XD-100 is for a 100:1 ratio mix...couldn't be further from the truth. XD-100 is designed for the leaner oil pump setups on etec motors. And another thing, the ratios are all over the map...it's called a variable ratio pump. Amsoil personally told me that the average ratio over the course of their test turned out to be right around 80:1. So at wot the ratio could be as rich as 50:1 and idle is probably near 150:1.

If you run HPI in a pre-mix application you do not want to run it any leaner than 50:1. If your were to run the XD-100 in a pre-mix application BRP would be horrified to learn you were running any leaner than 50:1. Nowhere on their XD-100 label does it say anything about running at a 100:1 ratio pre-mix. To do that it takes a very special oil design with unique film-strength characterisitcs and the only oil I'm aware of is the Saber Outboard which I used in my rebuilt 79 Evinrude 115. I ran it at 100:1, my friend run 80:1.

HPI leaner than 50:1? If you're talking about in a pre-mix application I would follow their recommended ratio which is 50:1. However, I've heard of guys switching over to a 100:1 ratio with HPI while they're idling for long periods. My advice for pre-mix applications is to use the Saber Outboard at either 80:1 or 100:1 and be done with it. I've run both ratios and it works fine.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

I agree. Doubtful that ANY 'top quality' oil will be responsible for an engine failure.

What I DO suspect...is that if something fails and a manufacturer decides that they don't feel like honoring a so-called 'warranty issue', they can point to the fact that the owner used a diff oil than recommended. It certainly doesn't mean that they will automatically 'get away with' that excuse, but they sure can make it a pain-in-the-arse to get warranty service.

IMO, as long as you keep detailed service logs/receipts and do all scheduled maintenance....you shouldn't have any problems with warranty service, should you need it.

In the event of a motor failure, I would assume the manufacturers would be more concerned with the 'condition' of the oil, rather than it's brand name.

VERY WELL STATED!! I couldn't have said it any better. In fact that's probably my biggest concern if I were to have a failure during the warranty period. When you say condition of the oil I'm assuming you're referring to contaminated issues such as water in the oil? I've heard of that causing some serious powerhead failures. By the way, this is great conversation...love it!

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

I would follow Evinrude's recommendation for oil used in your ETEC.



Are you going to bet your 2010 130 ETEC on that....

Using ATF and the severe duty service schedule recommended by ^^^ that company I lost a transmission (burned up needle bearings which lead to catastrophic failure) and they denied warranty coverage. They said the ATF sample from the failed transmission was still OK for continued service. Testing was done at their facility. I send another sample of that same fluid to an independent oil testing facility and the independent companies test showed that the fluid was oxidized and that the ATF had been run far too long. The transmission fluid was within ^^^ that companies severe duty service schedule, but almost 15K miles past the OEM's service schedule............

Yes, this wasn't and outboard and I wasn't using HPI, but if you feel ^^^ they will warranty and pay for your broke motor, go ahead and run the HPI....

I learned my lesson The hard way :facepalm:

I'm sorry to hear about your failed transmission. It's really hard for me to comment not having the specifics to study. To answer your question - yes I'm going to put my etec in the hands of HPI...I'm already there. Besides the motor is used and there was no factory warranty that transerred over.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Strom, Sorry you consider my posts disruptive. They certainely were not meant to be. Whereas you present an emotional case for Amsoil's superiority, you present no evidence other then your willingness to use it, some advertising from Amsoil and your big proof is that the e-TEC didn't blow up. We have all heard from Amsoil-enthusastics before on this forum, and they usually get huffy and disappear when asked about any proof, independent results etc.

What you run in your motor is your business. My wish is for folks reading these posts to get an understanding for the quality of the evidence you cite. I think it is of low-quality.

Finally, I would be real surprized if BRP would cover a lubrication-related failure on an e-TEC using Amsoil.

What are you talking about "an emotional case for superiority"? Are you for real? You're a classic example of a guy that wouldn't accept anything other than BRP coming out of the woodwork to say such and such oil is ok to use with an ETEC. It aint gonna happen. And let me clarify for you on what I've done in this outboard forum: 1. I've provided a video of my motor running on HPI. 2. I provided some insight as to some testing that was conducted for Amsoil by an independent party. 3. I never said HPI was superior because I have no basis for saying it. The test did not conclude that it was better...and I've said it in this thread more than once.

Please keep your facts straight. You can draw what you want from that facts that came out of the testing. Something I question is whether or not 534 hours of side-by-side testing is enough? The FACT of the matter is 534 hours was it and the comparison in the tear-down was done objectively as possible with both motors. Now let's have some engaging conversation on what we can draw from it. Look - the test was for real. It really took place. If your conlusion is that it's advertising jibberish then so be it but then please tell me what would satisfy you? Do you think 534 hours is not enough for you?

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

From what I learned from local E-Tech owners is that Brp will be easier to deal with in case of motor failure related to oil type usage when the motor is adjusted at the XD-50 mode. I read that they would be hard to deal with when the motor is adjusted for the XD-100 lean mix if the owner uses anything else but their XD-100 oil. Seems to me spending a few xtra $$ for the Xd-100 brp oil is meaningless considering the cost of the motor itself ... but hey that's me and I am just sharing opinions.

That's a fair opinion and I respect it. For me the issue is running the lean-mode setting or standard. Regardless of the setting I will always run the best oil I can get...either XD-100 or HPI which I believe is kind of what you're saying. The few extra bucks for the best oil becomes somewhat moot even if the oil pump is on the standard setting...it just doesn't consume that much.

 

[Stromzilla]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

OK I'm back, you can resume......................................

Pass the popcorn please! Do you think we can ever get back to just talking about outboards, etec's, or where's that optimax owner? How does that motor run and what kind of oil does Mercury recommend?

 

[Sprky]

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Re: Evinrude ETEC 130 Performance

Wait! Wait! Wait!..........I'm making a beer run. Who needs one.