Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

[T-290]

I'm curious to know who might be trailering their boats with a Chevy Astro Van? The reason for my inquiry is this, I own one first of all, and when we load it up with all the family ,gear, etc.+ boat,which by the way only has 150# of tongue wgt. The bumper seemed to be dragging A##! I've added one additional spring to try to compensate for the extra load, however when empty she rides with the A## end up in the air like an old 1969 wanna be race car with it's first pair of air shocks over-inflated to 120PSI! From what the manual discribes max. payload is 1400 LBS. And at the same time I want to keep the center of gravity as low as possible. The lift that was added from the additional shock is a bit much,and has altered the smooth factory ride. Has anyone used or currently have a better system that can be adjusted according to the extra load that they tow? Thanks T-290

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Well T290, I tow my 22' Bowrider on a single axle trailer with my 97 Astro Van. <br />I have 4 kids and my wife and I all go out as a family when we go boating. Fully Loaded Boat & trailer weigh in just around 3600-3800#. <br />Yes the rear end does come down a bit when van is loaded with full fuel and people. <br />I do not have any extra springs in the suspension but have never encounted the low bumper you describe.<br />Are the springs orignal and what year is your van? Older Astro/Safari's have a one peice plastic $ composite spring. 1996 or 97 and up have the multi steel spring set up which is what mine is although my van does have the towing package. Springs are the same though.<br />If the van was in a rear ender then there is a posibility of the Bumper / hitch being custom aligned by force.

 

[JB]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

What is the towed weight rating and max vehicle gross weight of an Astro Van?<br /><br />It never ceases to amaze me how people will discuss and discuss what to tow with, how much I tow ("Mine is this big")and never mention the rated towing weight of the vehicle.<br />

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Sorry JB, <br />Here goes, <br /><br />Max trailer weight with towing package for 2wd passenger Astro with weight dist. hitch 5400 # <br /><br />Gross vehicle weight range 5950 #<br />Approx curb weight 4345 #<br />Full Fuel Approx weight 165 #<br /><br />G.V.W.R. ...............5950 #<br />- CurbW ................4345 #<br />- Fuel .................... 165 #<br />- trailer tongue weight 500 #<br />------------------------------<br />Approx..................... 940 # left for passengers and cargo inside Astro if all of above are maxed out!<br />I am not close to the trailer maximum figures and do not use the weight distribution part of my hitch as I run surge brakes. <br /><br />Please let me know if you agree with or disagree with any figures Jb.<br /><br />T290 let us know any extra info you have on your van.<br /><br />Regards, <br />Mike

 

[blifsey]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

You also need to be sure not to exceed the GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating). This would be the numbers you have plus the gross weight of boat/trailer/fuel/etc thats in the boat. There is usually a table in the manual listing GCVWR.<br /><br />BL...

 

[JB]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Hi, Mike.<br /><br />Sounds like you are well within recommended limits, but that doesn't help explain why the vehicle sags so much.<br /><br />Could you need replacement springs?<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[DJ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

T 290,<br /><br />Check out this product: www.airliftcompany.com<br /><br />These can be inflated for towing and deflated when not towing. They are better than air shocks. Shock absorbers, and their mounts, were never designed to be weight carrying components.

 

[T-290]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Hi Mike, <br />Our Astro is a 99' without a towing package. We have a straight frame hitch not a weight distributing. According to our manual we have a max. payload capacity of 1400 Lbs.if I have done the math correctly<br />730 lbs. Body wght.<br />160 lbs. tongue<br />200 lbs fuel<br />300 lbs luggage +/- w/ cargo box<br />100 lbs fishing equip again +/- !<br />That totals to 1490 lbs of payload I know that is not much but it exceeds their recommendation for load! I can't figure how you put an extra 360 lbs of tongue and don't figure you are overloaded! These are factory leaf springs(3) which are a very soft ride empty. I Know I'm not pulling a lot of wght. on my boat 1450 empty no fuel. add another 120 lbs. +/- All I can say is that she sags down a bit much for me . I would shutter when I would hit a dip in the road anticipating the horrible feeling of my axle bottoming out on the frame. rail!

 

[T-290]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Thanks djohn,<br />Are you currently running this product? if so, can you tell me what you like/dislike about it?Did you install it yourself?<br />Thanks for all T-290

 

[DJ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

T-290,<br /><br />No I am not currently using one. My current tow vehicle has air ride suspension. <br /><br />The last one I installed and operated was on an F-150. The system prior to that was on a Grand Marquis. The installation was straightforward and the operation simple.

 

[CHUCKB1]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

T-290,<br /><br />No matter what Chevy says the towing capacity is, if your vans rear end sags that much when towing your boat, might you not think you're towing too much boat? I believe all the published towing capacities from the manufacturers is bunch of over stated garbage. Just because you can move what you're towing and be within the so called towing capacity does not make ok to do. You need to get yourself a larger tow vehicle.

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

There is no way that you are towing too much boat. From what you state the trailer tongue weight is, I can only assume your boat weighs in around 1200-2000 pounds. <br /><br />The fact that the van rides high when empty is the first clue that the van is over loaded when it sits down like that with a load. <br />Depending on the weight rating on the boat trailer, I would transfer as much weight out of the van and into the boat WITHOUT EXCEEDING the trailer maximum rating. Things like a lugguge / cargo box are usually on the roof rack or in the very back of the van which transfers alot of weight directly onto the rear suspension. The same goes for the extra fuel you carry. 200# for fuel is around 32 gallons which is probably in gerry cans also located in the back of the van. Try not filling the fuel cans untill you are closer to the launch or end of your trip if possible.<br /><br />Published towing capacites are NOT over stated garbage and are LEGALLY and SAFELY achieved when trailer and vehicle are PROPERLY CONNECTED. <br />Any maximum tow rating be it for car, van, truck or 5ht wheel set up, has instructions that are clear and must be followed. Things like trailer brakes, weight distribution hitches, sway controllers and common sense will prevail rather than buying a Suburban, Excursion or Dually Pick Up to tow something less that 3500#. My Astro does sit down a bit with my 21-22' boat & trailer hooked up but it rides more level then I usually see from the same vans towing some pop up tent trailers.<br /><br />You can also use the air bag system for the rear springs but you still don't want to over load the rear tires. If you have a rear tire blow out on route, there is NO WAY a mini spare will get you down the road with a big load. Try moving some weight to the trialer if possible and then use a cover so that supplies are OUT OF SIGHT in the boat. I recommend the air bag assist for the rear springs rather than the rear shock set up for the same reason as stated by "djohns19". Leave the expensive fishing poles and supplies in the van instead. <br /><br />Good luck, I hope this gave you some ideas and keep the forum posted of your intentions.

 

[CHUCKB1]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Mike,<br /><br />If you're towing your 22 foot boat and trailer with a Chevy mini van, you are endangering yourself and others on the road. Also, 3600-3800 pounds for a loaded 22 foot boat and trailer sounds rather light.

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Well ChuckB1, the weight fully loaded boat with full fuel on trailer is right on the money as I had it weighed on trailer last year. That included 5 gallons in the potti plus all life jackets, 2 coolers,1 tube, 2 tops etc. and toys. I usually tow with around half tank and then fill up at the marina after the boat goes back in the water so take off 150#.<br />The boat is one of those mass produced Bowrider models and only has the smaller ligher 3.OL Omc outdrive. I think you know the the manufacturuer. Tires, bearings and brakes and brake fluid are all new this spring. <br /><br />I would love to know why you think this is dangerous. Length, weight, hitch type, weight of tow vehicle in relation to trailer, what?

 

[T-290]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Mike F,<br />I just found out that someone on are end(Wife) has altered the sensitivity of what we can and can't recieve for sites! I've been going crazy trying to figure out why I could not log in.<br /><br />In any case when are Astro is empty I measure 29" to the rear wheel well. The well measures 28" with just the boat on. When fully loaded it goes to 24- 25" that's at the rear well. <br /><br />I have made an error in my original post, where as I did not put air shocks on the van, I just installed an additional leaf to help keep the back end more level when we are loaded.The installation was not intended to add additional load. The Thule box is centered on the roof between the front and rear wheels. There are no additional Gerry cans of fuel on the back of the van. the only load behind the rear wheels is the tounge wght.(150#) 10% of the total B,M,Trailer(1480 empty). <br /><br />With the additional spring installed, fully loaded with everything I've measured right at 29" right back at original height perfectly level. However it rides like a semi empty, a little bitter sweet!<br /><br />Your statement on your GCVWR is a little bit taller than what our manual states which is 5,500#. So I'm a bit confused on how that formula works. When the max. payload is only 1400 lbs. and I'm right there or slightly above it do you disregard those numbers when you use the max. trailer load ratios?? <br />Thanks for all.......T-290

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

T290 GCWR is the TOTAL allowed weight of BOTH van and trailer and all their contents. The exact number for GCWR is in the dealer's towing guide which I don't have here, but it is over 9000 lbs.<br />The 5500 lbs rating is the figure for the maximum trailer weight only.<br /><br />Now I am the one confused. You stated that you carry 200lbs in fuel before you include the vans fuel weight. I am assuming that this is a separate load. Is it?<br /><br />I beleive the springs are the same in vans with or without factory towing suspension. Since you cannot change the number of people in the van without leaving someone at home, try transfering some weight into the boat trailer. By loading this weight and centering it in the trailer, it will only raise the tongue weight proportionaly. (300lbs off the roof when loaded into the middle of the boat on the trailer might only raise the tongue weight another 10% or 30 lbs). DO NOT under any circumstance OVER LOAD the boat trailer. What is the weight of the boat?<br />What is the max rating on the trailer?

 

[T-290]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Mike F,<br />The 200lbs of fuel was figured when I fill up the van, the capacity of tank is 26 gal., well a little off I was using water weight @ 8# per gal.!Which I thought was always figured as payload after curb weight.<br />Boat,Motor & Trailer weight 1480 empty.I'm guessing at the trailer alone might be 225-250? The trailer is a single axle old Shorelander,however there is no plate indicating capacities or anything that gives any discriptions.<br />As it was titled as a homemade trailer. Then I did some custom work on it to accomidate the boat properly. I installed a new center beam and made it 36-40" longer.It had huge tongue wght. over 250<br /><br />Prior to the work the boat hung off the back rollers by 14"!<br />When I took it to the trailer shop near my house they said it had a 2000# axle.

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

I did the math for my family of 6 and came up at 700lbs. My trailer tongue weith is around 300 with a fully loaded boat, a little less with 1/2 fuel. Full van fuel is around 165 lbs (MAXIMUM).<br />Total around 1165 lbs.<br /><br />That comes in under the 1400 lbs for van payload. All other sundry weight was included in the boat & trailer weight of 3785lbs listed below. Since I do not always tow with full fuel, tow toys, 3 tops and kicker motor, camping tent, sleeping bags and propane tank & stove and 2 bikes (which were all included in my 3785lbs.) where ever I go, I still have reserve left in the rear suspension. Take out the 2 extra tops camping gear, bikes, camping gear and bikes PLUS half a tank of boat gas and there goes more than 300 lbs. <br /><br />My trailer suspension and brakes are capapble of carrying MORE than 4000lbs. My trailer tires are rated for 5000lbs. I would not dream of overloading or compromising safety but if the trailer can safely handle the sundries and it's weight then thats where it goes. You have seen my list for maximum weight and I am sure that you can transfer some weight safely to your trailer and off of the rear suspension and tires.<br />As long as you keep the loaded trailer below your state limit for brakes (usually around 2000lbs but some states less - CHECK with your STATE), then do it.<br /><br />Contrary to what one other person says, my trailer is less than their 85% rule and I have no problem mechanicly whith the load and legally and I am cleared by my insurance company for a trailer up to 5400 lbs when properly hitched (I just checked today). <br />The difference between factory Tow Package and no Package is the rear axle ratio and weight platform hitch. Springs are the SAME. Oil and transmission coolers are both standard equipment so your van already has that too.<br />If not then a Suburban would be the expensive way to go! L.O.L !

 

[T-290]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

Mike F,<br />If you have been trailering with all of what you say,with all of the load that you carry, and I have no reason to doubt you.I'm fairly certain that what I have will be just fine. <br /> <br />I guess I havn't enough experience and not ashamed to admit it first hand. That's why I ask questions. I've "Always", "Always" wanted nothing more than to be safe with myself and most of all my family! <br />The only downside is the ride in the van without the load!! <br />I'm sure I will remove the additional springs that I have installed there also starting to squeak !!<br />Thanks very much for your time and input.I appreciate it very much. T-290

 

[DJ]

Re: Factory Suspension on our Trailering Vehicle

T-290,<br /><br />Don't fret it. If the figures you gave here (trailer weight, etc.) are true, you're well within your capabilties with that vehicle.<br /><br />Get those "overload" springs out of that van. They are biasing your braking forward (while unloaded) and reducing your braking by a large percentage.