fast, cheap, and easy....

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Ok... pick 2 is what I've heard the most, so I'm goin with fast, and cheap, and I'll work my butt off if need be.

Here's what I've got....

one royally rotted 15 foot closed bow fiberglass ski boat. mid 1950's

floors are out, stringers are pretty rotted, but still exist.

fiberglass is dry, some pin holes, some minor cracking in clear coat/gel coat

and a couple old fiberglass patch jobs that hold water but look REALLY bad.


Here's what I"ve done.

removed the old outboard, wiring, lights, tie downs, controls, burnt up switches, buttons, etc.

removed as much rotten stringer material as possible.

I've also sanded and filled the upper body, several times with a semi-flexible filler similar to drywall patch.

I plan to prime it, paint it, and then put on quite a few coats of polyeurethane, or some similar type sealant, to keep the H20 from doing it's worst.

the patch stuff I used is somewhat water soluble, so sealing it is a MUST, or it'll turn to mud again, and wash away.

My question is,

what about the bottom of the boat? Can I do the same thing? with the mud if I seal it well?

My plans for the stringers include sistering with treated 1 by's, and slathering with truck bed liner, plus adding some triangulated stringers to the transom, for added strength, as I think it'd be a good idea.

The transom does look good, from the outside, but I think I can tell that any wood inside the transom is gone, but luckily whoever had this thing did some cool stainless additions to the transom. It's got a stainless mounting pad inside and out at the top and bottom of the transom, and those suckers are SOLID. So... I'm not worried about the motor moving any, but I still wanna trianguate it with the stringers for the heck of it.

So I guess what I'm asking is.. will sistering (or more like sandwiching in my case) the old stringers provide enough strength?

I've never seen triangulated stringers to a transom... any suggestions or ideas about that? I've done plenty of triangulation with repair of homes, and strengthening old sheds, and I'm figuring "why not" for the transom.

And lastly... what's the best for sealing up the outside of this old fiberglass boat, to avoid leaks, cheaply. I don't wanna re-glass and re-gel-coat it, just seal it up well enough to float for the day. I'm really thinking a good patch job for looks, and a bunch of coats of poly to seal it against leaks, should do me ok. But perhaps I'm nuts, and need some reality.

Thanks

 

[Coors]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

Reality check time.
Read old threads in here.

 

[Ironpig]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

check back after the maiden "voyage". You should get a flame suit on pretty quick cause you are gonna get an earfull on here. Boat repairs aren't fast, cheap or easy. I would excise the drywall patch and at least use five minute epoxy if you insist on fast and cheap or the voyage will be to the bottom. Otherwise be prepared to put in some time and money and get a little dirty at the very least. Good luck otherwise.

 

[Mark42]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

Boat repairs yeild the best results when you follow proven and accepted methods. Basically, remove floor, stringers and transom, and replace with new wood. There are choices such as marine grade, pressure treated, or untreated. Epoxy or polyester. But the basic rules are replace the rotten stuff with new stuff.

There is one other option which is the closest thing to "fast, cheap and easy" that you will find and still be doing things right.

This method has been proven to work by years of production by boat manufactures like Chrysler and entails foaming the hull in place of stringers.

This is an accepted method, especially in smaller boats like yours. It entales removing all the rotten stringers. Replace the transom if rotten. Then install a new plywood floor without any stringers. The floor will need a few 2 to 4 inch holes drilled every 1 to 2 feet. Then pour in the foam. It will expand and ooze out the holes. Foam sticks to everything tenaciously, including the hull and floor. It is all glued together. Cut off the excess foam, glass in the holes, and you are done.

This method requires that the floor be sealed to the hull so that no water can get underneath and eventually be absorbed by the foam. Do some reading on foam and the latest tests and you will find it is not nearly as water absorbent as the stuff used in the past. And use a higher density foam (I think its 2lb foam).

 

[txmntman]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

actually, I've always heard the saying was "Fast, cheap, and right, pick any two"
This is really where I think you are. If you have picked fast and cheap.....well, you see where you are.....hopefully, you will pick "Cheap and right", then, at least you'll have a boat....sorry....reality is sticking his head in..

 

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

Yes.. I was thinking of the "pick any two" as well. Time to learn fiberglass repairs I think!!! The foam is an interesting option, but I don't think I'd be happy with the results. Replacing the stringers, is a go, found marine grade lumber, and I am working on fitting them right now. I have pulled the old ones out, as they are pretty much dust and mud, and the transom is actually quite solid, not as flimsy as I'd previously thought. It'll be good for a bunch more years I think. Building the drain box should be fun, and then bedding the new stringers is next on my list. Then replacing the old cruddy fiberglass patches, and some "bottom paint" from the local guys. I think I may stick with the polyeurethane for the top portion, as I've already patched and primed it, and started some paint. It won't be in the water, except for minor spray, so I think it'll be ok. Just has to look pretty, no structural stuff, or waterproof stuff on top. Other than that.. time to start working I guess. Father's day weekend will be for fishin and playin w/ the 4 year old, but next week starts the work again. Wish me luck I'll have to do some heavy duty reading about fiberglassing, as I know about this (*) much about it. No time like the present to learn though. Don't mind getting dirty, or working hard.

Thanks
Chris

 

[oops!]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

my question is,

what about the bottom of the boat? Can I do the same thing? with the mud if I seal it well?

.........no it will not work

So I guess what I'm asking is.. will sistering (or more like sandwiching in my case) the old stringers provide enough strength?

And lastly... what's the best for sealing up the outside of this old fiberglass boat, to avoid leaks, cheaply.
Thanks

the product is called marine tex....

you can also get a product from composits one called patch aid...mix with gell coat...and apply to the area....

caddy....you have some misconceptions....but well get to them in a sec...

This method has been proven to work by years of production by boat manufactures like Chrysler and entails foaming the hull in place of stringers.

.........minimum 4 lb foam....and make sure there lots....i mean lots of expansion holes...in the hull.....

==========================================================

ok.....caddy.....first of all....boats are not cheap......your in this for a grand and over 100 hours.....but its worth it....

as far as quick...and cheap....the previous owner fixed it fast and cheep... (the patches)....and you dont like them...! ....so scratch fast

as far as easy......it only comes easy after your fourth resto !!!


i highly suggest you take out all the body fairing material you used..... or you will be doing it again.........use poly fair...or dyna hair........

you can make your own using...poly resin...cabosil...glass bubbles...and milled fibers....with chopped strand...(1/4 inch) thrown in for good measure.....mix it to the consistancy of soft margrine.....

sistering the stringers with plywood is ok if you cut out all the rot....
but its only another few hours to replace them.....

read hull extension in progress.....it has the pictures of triangleation on the stringers to the transom......its called "knees"

as coors suggested...read...read...read....this forum will save you 50 hrs on your project.

any more questions...post here

cheers
oops

 

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

Ok.. I'm new, I am learning, and reading lots.

Old stringers are on the way out, as are the old patches, and anything rotten I can find. Just found a source for fiberglass, two types, one thicker, and one thinner. Was told to use thin first, over something like wax paper, that comes in BIG sheets, and then use a few thick layers, making sure not to get any bubbles, and then thin over a couple times again.

Next input is that everybody I'm talking to at local boat shops/marinas seems to think I should haul this thing to a fiberglass shop, and have it gel-coated inside and out. I've never heard of gel-coating a boat inside, but three different shops have recommended it, as a method of keeping water out of my stringers, and floor. For the costs I'm hearing, it could pay to do both I guess.

I also found a place to get the "peanut butter" everybody seems to be using for setting stringers.

I talked to a lot of folks about the idea of using foam only under the floor, and everybody I've talked to says go ahead and foam it, but put stringers in first anyway, and have them glassed in, and then foam it. So.. my next question is.. why foam it? If the stringers are going to be new, and the floor is new, why bother with foam too? Just curious.

I think I have a LOT of reading to do, especially the thread where they extend a boat. I don't plan to do that, but I think the info in there should be good, especially about triangulation of the hull and transom.

Thanks, and I'll keep reading.

 

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

just watched the fiberglass patch videos from the "west system" fiberglass repair on youtube. Wow do they make it look easy!!! Too bad I know enough to know it won't go that fast for me, or easy. But... I'm not discouraged yet. How do you know how much hardener to put in the epoxy? and if you "squeegie" off the epoxy from the fiberglass is it still possible to use too much? I've seen what puddles of epoxy do, they shatter like cheap glass, and I want strong repairs. I guess I need to practice some on something else? and what exactly is that stuff they used inside the foam, and outside to leave that "smooth" finish they are talking about. All the fiberglass repairs I've ever seen are not only rough, but typically leave raw fiberglass strands somewhere. The repairs I saw in the video left a finished plastic look, and I like that.

So.. my questions are.. what's that plastic stuff that left a smooth finish

and

how does one measure hardener to epoxy (or does it vary by brand/temperature/humidity... as in your guess is as good as mine)

Thanks
Chris

 

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

Wow, I've read tons and tons since my last post on this topic. I've not had near as much time to work on my boat since then, but I've had lots of time to read, and I'm sure glad I have. The fiberglass matt and weave I found initially, is not the stuff I plan to use, as it's mostly poly, and won't bond as well to what I have. I have read enough to know that I didn't have a clue!!! The post on the hull extension has me researching and looking for better supplies and such, and thinking seriously about whether or not I should look for another hull, or put the time and effort into doing this one right. The marine wood I found, has been drying on my garage floor for the past number of weeks, and the boat has been in the garage drying as well, as I read all the problems about fiberglass staying wet, and causing bonding problems. I also drilled a few plugs into my transom, and have decided that replacing it would probably be a real good idea, even though I initially thought it was pretty strong. Most of what I found on the top half appeared strong and solid, but the lower half appeared mushy, and closer to mud than wood. For the time it takes to rotozip out the fiberglass, and put in new plywood, I'd sure feel safer out on the boat knowing it was solid.

So.. thanks to all for the "reality check" I needed. I don't think I'll have this boat in the water any time soon, but I know that when I do finally get it out, I want it done right. So... I'm learning, and reading, and learning some more, and then I'll get to work

 

[oops!]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

The fiberglass matt and weave I found initially, is not the stuff I plan to use, as it's mostly poly, and won't bond as well to what I have. I want it done right. So... I'm learning, and reading, and learning some more, and then I'll get to work

ok bud....hang on here.....but first.....thanks for doing yourself a favor and reading on this forum......i hope it saved you time and money......

but lets clear up somthing here......

the matt and cloth you have is neither poly or epoxy....it is fiberglass.

it is the type of resin you choose that will be EITHER....polyester...(what your boat is allready made of) or epoxy....(known as "the glue")
poly should be fine on your boat....but remember....poly wont stick to epoxy...so if youve used epoxy on it allready...stick with it.

the csm....(chopped strand matt) you have....will be fine....as i doubt that it is over 1.5 oz thick.....and for a little 15 footer....unless the cloth (woven product) unless its a 50 oz product....it should be fine as well.....can you post pics?

is seems like weve got you on the right track......dont forget to read the safety basics for grinding and glassing (the sticky at the top of the forum....and take them seriously.

if you want....there is a book called runabout renovation by jim anderson.
that is a great little read....even tho it is a bit vague on the finer detailes...its still a great start to finish guide line...

another thing that can help....is keep posting !....it will keep you motivated on your project....this site is invaluable in a lot more ways than we first realize.

cheers
oops

 

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

oops, thanks once again for explaining things to me in a clear and respectful way. I was confused about the polyester, or epoxy being in the resin, instead of the mat. The mat I found was at a hardware store, and the chopped strand matt is like 4 ounce I believe, but perhaps it was 0.4 ounce? does that make any sense?, as I didn't buy any, and the woven matt, I believe was 14 or maybe 12 ounce matt. The resin I found in gallon containers, was bout 55 bucks a gallon, and was polyester resin. I'm not sure if the patches that are on the boat now are polyester, or epoxy. They are messy, and dark in color. I still plan on grinding them off completely, before re-patching anything.

I learned in the little bit of sawing I've done, to remove floors and some of the stringers, that the jokes made about being certain to wear shorts, and t'shirts, or no shirt, certainly are jokes only. I can remember riding in a kayak as a teenager, that was fiberglass, old, and NOT gelcoated on the inside. I was wearing a speedo, as I was a swimmer in high school, and let me tell you, my legs hurt for WEEKS. When working on the boat, I zipped through the fiberglass floor surround, real quickly, leaving about 3/4 inch of a lip to attach the new floor to. Well, in doing so, I was wearing pants, and a long shirt, and a hat, and goggles, and gloves. I still managed to get fiberglass on my hands where the gloves left a gap by my long sleeve shirt, and I got some on my neck, and face. I was wearing a mask, the paper type, and I think a new filter type mask is in order ASAP before I do any more sawing or grinding. I also think I might tape my gloves to my shirt sleeves, to avoid any more getting on my arms/hands. I sweat like a slob when I work in a hot garage, but I"d rather sweat, then get torn up by fiberglass.

I plan on continuing to post questions as I go, as I'm learning more and more that I have a LOT more to learn.

As to posting photos, I don't have a digital camera, and developing 35mm onto disk is my only option. I plan on taking some over to the wal-mart later this week, or perhaps this weekend, to show my "progress" so far.

I will say that I think I did a fair job of cleaning up the ole evinrude lark 35. I sanded off any rough spots and chipping paint with a sand sponge, and then primered with grey sandable primer, sanded again, and painted with an aluminum colored epoxy paint. not exactly like the color in the manual I saw online, but fairly close. I then coated with spray polyeurethane that was almost perfectly clear. I've done this sand/primer/paint/poly on several old aluminum and iron and steel things like outdoor chairs, tables, metal outdoor decorations, a childrens bicycle, some outdoor tools, and some other stuff. It's held up remarkably well, and I live close to the beach, so salt air, and water are constantly in contact with this stuff. The poly sometimes fades a bit, creating more of a semi gloss finish, then a gloss, but it seems to hold up a long time. It's easy to wash too, and has stopped further rust on MANY rusty old metal chairs I've painted. Those aluminum chairs you get for the beach, that oxidize and pretty much lock up solid after a season at the beach... well I've had one chair last 5 seasons, because I painted it in this fashion, the ones I didn't finish, were rusted and fell apart after 3 months of use at the beach. The only thing I worry about with painting the outboard in this fashion, is that the vibration might create a problem that I'm not aware of yet.

Thanks again, and I look for continued direction/motivation/and support

 

[oops!]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

heh heh heh.....the itch is a killer....the past two days im in my shorts and muscle shirt with my tyvec longboarding.....the sweat is making the glass go into my pors...so the itch is killing me

shop around for resin....55 a gal is killer money.....thats about right for epoxy......your in north carolina....thats nascar country....so there should be lots of glass suppliers there.....(unwaxed poly between $89 and $130 for 5 gals)
i think 5 gals epoxy was $250

the dept store resin is prob the bondo type....waxed poly....not great for laminating as youve got to grind off the waxed surface before each lamination

the matt in the hardawre store is probably one oz....and the roving is more likely a finishing veil....(very thin tightly woven fine fabric)its sold in little packages.....(youll pay thru the teeth)

if you shop around lots....youll find a glass shop that will sell you off the roll...for a fraction of dept store costs.

hope that helps

cheers
oops

 

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

well, if you've read my other post about the lark... I got it running today, thanks to new coils and a solenoid. I think the old solenoid would have worked, but I feel better having new solid connections. She smoked a bit, but shot water out the pee hole, and sounded smooth. Just gotta work on setting the carb to idle, and I think I'll replace the impeller before firing it up again, and perhaps check the thermostat (not sure if this one has one). It sure felt good to hear it run though. I gave myself an attaboy for this one.

Thanks, and I'm gonna keep on chuggin on this project

 

[shields88]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

your in north carolina....thats nascar country....so there should be lots of glass suppliers there.....

Heh, I chuckled at this...

 

[nineteensixtycaddy]

Re: fast, cheap, and easy....

ok... I took her to the water today, just to see about weight dist... and floating, added the boards I plan to use for the stringers, and gas tank, and battery, and wanted to see where the water line would fall, to know what portion I need to really fiberglass and fix, and what will be above, that I can kinda patch and fudge it on. I also figured, while the motors on the transom, I'll fire it up, and see if she'll pull forward and back from the boat ramp. Hmm... she fired fine, at high idle, and refused to run if I slowed her down too much. Just couldn't get her to idle. So.. I reduced from high rev to a lower rev, but not idle, and let her run for a while. Put it in reverse, and it lifted because I haven't bolted down the clip yet, put it in drive, and it pushed gently back onto the trailer. Good things right. Well, I let it sit and run while I moved the santa fe and trailer back to park, to clear some room at the boat dock just in case anybody else showed up. In that time... she died.

I tried to start again, and no luck. Crank after crank, no spark. nothin. I checked the wires to make sure the magneto shutoff wires weren't shorting, and no such luck.

I just don't know what I could have done. She sat and ran for about 5 minutes, putting out pee from the pee tube, and smoking less and less as she ran more and more, and then just coughed and quit.

Totally confounded, and discourged.

Help

Nineteensixtycaddy