Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

[craze1cars]

I'm mid-swap. Summary of project: I got ahold of a 1998 Chevy truck with 210,000 miles on a mechanic's lein. The customer never paid for his new remanufactured engine that the shop just installed, so the shop took ownership of the truck and ended up selling it to me. I drove the truck around for a few hundred miles to break in the motor and confirm it's a good one (it is). And now this new reman 5.7L Vortec is coming out of the truck and going into my boat. The boat's 1999 Volvo Penta 5.0L PWTR Vortec (which is rather tired, but still runs good) will be going into the truck...and then the truck will be going off to auction

These are my questions:

1. Brass freeze plugs: Much to my pleasant surprise, the new reman engine already has brand new brass freeze plugs...EXCEPT for the large diameter one dead center under the flywheel. It is steel. Every brass freeze plug "kit" I can find has all brass plugs EXCEPT for this larger diameter one. I find this rather odd. WHY? Should I swap it for brass....if yes where can I buy one?

2. Exhaust manifold-to-head gaskets: Anything special or "marine" rated about this one? Seems to me I can use an automotive gasket here since water never touches it. Correct or wrong?

3. Intake manifold gaskets: Same question as above. Automotive Fel-Pro type gasket OK from my local parts store, or should I get one direct from Volvo?

That's all for now. Will ask again if something else comes up. Thank you.

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I am curious myself - Will the cam that is in it be OK? i thought the overlap was an issue with the automotive engines.

LK

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

Factory truck cam. EXTREMELY close in specs to the Volvo marine cam. Very subtle difference, but that slight diff won't be an issue. This is a common swap discussed here frequently. If it were an aftermarket performance cam or somehow much more different, then yes I belive that would be an issue. Will not be for this particular swap.

I know marine head gaskets are different from automotive. And freeze plugs in trucks are USUALLY steel and need to be swapped. Otherwise it's just swap out EVERYTHING external of the long block to make it marine, and it'll work fine.

Still curious if there is any reason for me to use factory Volvo intake and exhaust manifold gasket, vs. good quality Fel-Pro automotive which are easier and faster for me to obtain. Opinions/answers on those issues alone are much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I'm mid-swap. Summary of project: I got ahold of a 1998 Chevy truck with 210,000 miles on a mechanic's lein. The customer never paid for his new remanufactured engine that the shop just installed, so the shop took ownership of the truck and ended up selling it to me. I drove the truck around for a few hundred miles to break in the motor and confirm it's a good one (it is). And now this new reman 5.7L Vortec is coming out of the truck and going into my boat. The boat's 1999 Volvo Penta 5.0L PWTR Vortec (rather tired) will be going into the truck...and then the truck will be going off to auction...

These are my questions:

1. Brass freeze plugs: Much to my pleasant surprise, the new reman engine already has brand new brass freeze plugs...EXCEPT for the large diameter one dead center under the flywheel. It is steel. Every brass freeze plug "kit" I can find has all brass plugs EXCEPT for this larger diameter one. I find this rather odd. WHY? Should I swap it for brass....if yes where can I buy one?

2. Exhaust manifold-to-head gaskets: Anything special or "marine" rated about this one? Seems to me I can use an automotive gasket here since water never touches it. Correct or wrong?

3. Intake manifold gaskets: Same question as above. Automotive Fel-Pro type gasket OK from my local parts store, or should I get one direct from Volvo?

That's all for now. Will ask again if something else comes up. Thank you.

Ayuh,... #1,.. That's the cam bore, there's oil, not water behind it...

#2,.. Automotive gaskets are piece meal, marine are 1 piece...
try holdin' 4 of 'em in-place as you tighten up a 40lb. manifold yer holdin'...

#3,.. No problem there, Fel-pros are 'bout the best gaskets around...
Just toss the valley strips, 'n use rtv on the ends...

'n the pickup cam is just Fine, you'll never know the difference...

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

Thank you Bondo. Answered all my q's, very helpful and quick as usual! Actually the 2 automotive exhaust manifold gaskets that came off of the truck when I pulled the motor were one-piece, very similar to the 2 Volvo gaskets that came off the boat...which is why I was askin'. I was considering sumthin like these:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...9001+101998+50014+2014029&Ar=AND(P_RecType:A)

Sounds like it makes no difference and I'll probably try to source these gaskets locally at the auto parts joint rather than mess with a marina.

Thank you much.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

Sounds like it makes no difference and I'll probably try to source these gaskets locally at the auto parts joint rather than mess with a marina, assuming the exhaust can be had in a one-piecer.

Ayuh,... Fel-pro, #1404, Excellent metal graphite gaskets,...

My Napa can have 'em overnight....

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

New problem...

I need to remove the water jacket plug from the side of the head on the original Volvo engine, so I can install a coolant temp sensor in that location for the truck. It's a square hole, I thought it was a 3/8" drive hole...but it turns out it's a bit smaller than that. And 1/4" drive is definitely too small.

Any idea what size this is, or where I can source a socket or tool to remove this plug? I suppose I can grind down a scrap 3/8" extension until it fits if I have to.

I also was hoping to not need to pull the harmonic balancers. But the timing chain cover on the truck motor has a crank sensor hole in it. And it needs to be swapped with the blank cover on the Volvo motor that doesn't have any holes. If I don't, the truck computer won't get crank sensor data and it probably won't run right. Off to Autozone to rent a balancer puller/installer kit I guess...

This is kinda an interesting job trading these motors. Many have taken a truck motor and marinized it to make it run in a boat. BUT I think I'm one of very few who are actually taking a factory Volvo motor and "truck-izing" it so it will run in the truck. It's a little bit different and definitely adds some steps LOL. Ahhhh...the lengths I'm goin' thru just to save a few bucks on a boat motor replacement...at least I am a patient man and I consider this to be a rather fun project!

If anyone knows that head plug size...please share! Thanks!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

If anyone knows that head plug size...please share! Thanks!

Ayuh,.... I'm bettin' a piece of 5/16" keystock, fit's it....

An 8-point socket would then fit it, 'n you can use an Impact to remove it...

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I believe you are correct on the dimension. And a proper socket does indeed exist to fit these plugs, but not commonly available in most tool stores:
http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=jnSwTpi-LYnMqgGB9b2uBQ&ved=0CEcQ8wIwAA#

I didn't have any keystock like that and didn't feel like goin' out for another simple tool, so I ended up grinding down a junky 3/8" extension I had laying around until it fit, and the plug turned out of the head rather easily since the plug was brass...so no impact gun was needed. So I'm past that little hurdle and moving on!

If all goes well, I will have no more questions...With the help of Autozone loan-a-tool program I got the timing belt covers swapped, harmonic balancers reinstalled, etc...I'm motoring right along and don't expect many more problems. If I get stumped, I'll be back...

Thanks again, Bondo!

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

Hmmmm....just when I thought I was over the hump. Discovered another surprising issue with mounting the starter. These two engine blocks are NOT identical in this one location.

The Volvo/marine starter is mounted with two bolts, and the inboard bolt is substantially larger diameter than the outer bolt.

The truck starter is mounted with the same two bolts, but the two bolts are identical in diameter. So the one hole is drilled and tapped in a different size than the marine motor.

I can install the marine starter on the new block no problem, as I found a sleeve/bushing that fits perfectly into the holes of the starter, allowing me to slip the narrower bolt into this location...so I have no need to drill out and tap the block to a larger size, which was my other alternative.

However, this means the inboard starter mount hole in the Volvo block is far too large to accept the small diameter bolt of the truck's starter motor. I can't drill out the holes in the starter motor to accept a fatter bolt...there not enough material. So somehow I have to make the hole in the Volvo engine block smaller...

How to get this done? I'm thinking about running the fat bolt into the hole with red loc-tite or epoxy, then cut it off and grind it flush with the block, and then drill and tap the smaller diameter hole I need. I'm not sure this will work or if it's a good idea. Block is on an engine stand and easy to flip upside down and work on as needed. Suggestions? Maybe I can get a heilcoil in there that will shrink the diameter enough? Somehow I don't think so...I'm thinking I'd have to put a heli-coil inside a heli-col, inside another heli-coil to bring it down far enough....

Ideas are welcome...thx.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I'm thinking the thread insert kits from these guys might have my solution:
http://fulltorque.com/fft.htm

I wonder what their kits cost? I bet they're pricey...will have to give them a call maybe tomorrow.

I'm sStill open to other ideas....please share if you have any thoughts.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

Ayuh,.... What sizes We talkin' 'bout here,..??

standard starter bolt is 3/8"- 16.....

Is the starter bolt pattern Both straight across, or Both staggered pattern,..??
Ya usin' a 12" flywheel, or 14",..??

I've never used the inserts you linked, but I've installed a ton of Heli-coils...

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I knew I shoulda measured before typing. Sorry 'bout that...

Flywheel is 14". Both starters have staggered mount bolts.
Starter bolts off the truck are both 3/8" - 16.
Starter bolts off the 5.0L GL Volvo PWTR are different. One is standard 3/8" - 16, and the problem bolt is a whopping 1/2" - 20.

I guess my core question is...how can I shrink that 1/2" - 20 hole down to a 3/8" - 16 threaded hole in a cast iron block? I think that's too much for a heli-coil to work.

I kinda like my idea of going to the hardware store and buying a low grade/soft 1/2" - 20 bolt, install it with epoxy, cut it off, grind it flat, and then drill and tap a brand new 3/8" - 16 hole. Good idea? Alternatives?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I kinda like my idea of going to the hardware store and buying a low grade/soft 1/2" - 20 bolt, install it with epoxy, cut it off, grind it flat, and then drill and tap a brand new 3/8" - 16 hole. Good idea? Alternatives?

Ayuh,.... Gettin' the new hole, perfectly centered, perfectly aligned, would scare me....
'n the stock threads are recessed into the hole...

If ya chucked a 1/2" bolt into a lathe, 'n punched a centered pilot hole through it, then epoxied it in to the proper depth,...
Maybe it'd work....

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I agree it would be easier if I could make/find a 1/2" - 20 thread HOLLOW bolt....center drilled.

A close buddy owns a machine shop...maybe he can drill me such a bolt before I install it and try to tap it.

But one of those inserts on that link I marked looks ideal. Calls for a 33/64" drill bit...just big enough to oversize the existing hole just a hair and put the insert in to bring me to 3/8" - 16. Just gotta find out what they cost. If the dang kit is $80 or something...I might try the home-grown method first...

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I would definately tap the bolt in a lathe if possible. I believe there is a countersink for the starter bolt also.

LK

 

[no704]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

A "Keensert" would be perfet to fix that hole. But, I don't think that they come in 1/2-20, just 1/2-13. Could drill that block to a 9/16-12 and use one.

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

Just a thought but could you just swap the noses on the starters? I have done this before going from a stick shift to auto on a car, Worth a shot.

LK

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

Well the boat is 100% done. Truck motor is installed, took for a test drive today, everything is perfect. I didn't gain much on top speed...still a hair shy of 60 mph as I was with the original 5.0L, but now it comes out of the hole with such violence it's rather stunning. Low and midrange is amazing. When I slam the throttle open from a dead stop, the bow leaps up in the air and slamms down to the water, porpoises twice, and I'm at 40 mph in about 2 seconds. No exaggeration. It's a drag boat. It's positively fantastic, and way more than this 20 foot runabout needs...I like it.

But back to the problem at hand. Still gotta get the boat motor running in the truck. I think I found a great solution for shrinking that big starter bolt hole. Browsing at Lowes I came across some 1/2" - 20 thread set screws. Purchased 3 of them. My plan is to thread them into the hole stacked one on top of another and epoxy them into place. I'll grind off the last one flush since it'll probably be sticking out above the surface. The cool part about the set screws is that they're all essentially hollow and center drilled (hexagonal, with a cone shaped depression at the center, but I can gradually work the hole from small drill bit to large), so the set screws will guide the drill bit dead-center and straight as I bore thru them the whole time, and once I get it drilled out big enough I can tap the proper threads into them.

I'm pretty sure it'll work. Will know more when I give it a shot later this week after I find the time. Will report back.

 

[Failproof]

Re: Few random/specific questions when trading a truck engine for boat engine...

I can tell you from experience that if the starter bolt(s) is not fairly dead nuts on it will become a bendix eating flexplate grinding cringe everytime you turn the key nightmare. Had a 5.7, "fixed" a stripped starter bolt hole during rebuild at machine shop. 1500 miles later was swapping componets into a new block. Even had a nose cone filed to match offset and that only made it "betterish"