Fiberglass canoe - unknown year/make keel repair and foam replacement.

[Can'tFishEnough]

So, I picked up this old fiberglass canoe pretty cheap thinking it just had one major issue where the aft area behind the keel was worn through. But as murphy's law probably predicts somewhere - it's always a bigger repair once you get into it....

Issue 1: the keel at the stern is worn through and the foam in the compartment is in pretty bad shape. Also it seems it was built with a small plywood strip under the hull glass over the foam of the keel (if canoe is right side up).

issue 2: the keel in general has been covered over by some form of bondo (pink and grey) and a sticky kind of mesh that is not adhering very well any longer on some parts.

issue 3: the "stringers"/ribs inside the canoe are also cracked - looks like someone put too much pressure on it on dry land - they have a bad fiberglass repair that will also need to be cut off and redone as it's cracking also.

issue 4: is the foam in general. The keel seems to have had foam in it as well as the ribs and the bow and stern. All the foam probably needs to be replaced at some point. (There is also some pretty bad wood in the float compartment that looks like it may have just been a form that the glass was laid over.)

My guess is that the canoe is old in the sense that there is no serial # or manufacture id name or #.

Intended use - day or rather hourly type use on small city parks with calm water, large farm ponds, maybe some bayous where there is minimal wind, light fishing - maybe eventually a trolling motor. no long camping trips in the wild or white water...

questions:
1. should I just sand the whole keel down and rebuild one around a pvc pipe with release agent then attach it to the hull with new glass?
2. should I rebuild the keel with strips of styrofoam under it?
3. I was thinking of cutting a "hatch" hole in the stern flotation cavity to be able to get to the inside to remove the old foam - can I replace the foam in the stern with chopped up styrofoam for now? Or even the home material stuff like the blue or pink stuff from the hardware store? Then when I get some 2 part foam for my other boat when I replace the floor in about a year I could replace the styrofoam and put that in there.
4. should I just chunk it to the curb and cut my losses and not worry about the time and effort?

I will have to resize some pictures to upload. Will try to do it tonight.

(Other note - I'm decent with fiberglass, but what I don't know is what the best option is for the keel and the foam under it. That has me stumped. thanks for your help).

 

[Woodonglass]

Pics will tell the tale. Waiting on them.

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

No Title

Pictures of keel and stern damage (pics seem to be in reverse order- the last couple are the way I got it, the first ones are after I started picking at the old repair getting frustrated that I didn't just walk away) :facepalm:

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

No Title

pics of interior support pics (Sorry a pics are notated - one of outside is with canoe upside down the other right side up)

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

So...??? any thoughts based on pictures? I saw somewhere on line where a guy or shop or something just used the spray can expanding type foam for the keel by shooting a strip letting it expand and then carving/shaping it to match the keel line then fiberglassing over it. I guess that's not the best idea for strength or buoyancy, but would be the easiest way I've seen to get the shape right.
On closer inspection it looks like the keel on this boat has been done over in glass at least once, then someone went back over it with the fabric (that I thought was burlap- but now I think is the mesh tape for drywall) - then they put down a few layers of bondo. Some of it is adheared pretty well, but eventually it will all need to come off.
I wanted to use the canoe around the end of april so if I can at least get it patched up (and calm lake/pond worthy) I can deal with other cosmetics later.

all help is appreciated

 

[Woodonglass]

Polyester resin which is what the canoe is made from will eat foam. Epoxy resin won't but it's expensive. I'd use the Polyester. You can still use foam and use plastic packing tape to protect it from the resin. Buy a slap of the Blue foam from Lowes and cut it into 3" strips to fit into the keel section. As stated cover the strips with packing tape. Use a R/O sander and sand the inside and outside of the canoe really well to get down to the Pinkish glass. You'll need CSM and 1708 fiberglass Tape 6" and 12" strips. You'll need about 2 Gallons of resin and also about 2 gallons of cabosil to make some thickened resin for fairing material. Then it's just a matter of using the thickened resin to bed the strips of foam into the keel area to form the "Keel Mold" Once. it's in place and hardened. You'll then lay the first layer of 6" CSM over the outside of the foam Form and wet it out with resin and follow up with a six inch layer of 1708 cloth then a 12" layer of CSM and then a final 12" layer of 1708. Then Flip her over and do the exact same thing on the inside. She'll be strong as a tank and good as new.

 

[CantFishEnough]

Wow a lot of info packed in there. I've read it about 5-6 times and have a couple follow up questions.

First, you mention

Blue foam from Lowes and cut it into 3" strips to fit into the keel section.

You mean that I'm using the 3 inch strips (same width and height as the keel) to repair the damaged sections, right? At first I thought it was a typo and you meant 3 foot strips that would replace the whole keel from front to back? So I just wanted to clarify.

Also,

Use a R/O sander and sand the inside and outside of the canoe really well to get down to the Pinkish glass. ...Then Flip her over and do the exact same thing on the inside.

I'm not sure that the inside glass of the canoe is damaged from the keel except for the very rear stern area. (I actually can't get to that because of the integral foam compartment (unless I cut a hole in it... (I'll try to attach a pic or two of that from the inside at the end.))
- do you mean on those stringer areas that are cracked?And by "Pinkish" glass I'm assuming you mean non-damaged area? nothing looks pink just off-white color.

Finally:

You'll need CSM and 1708 fiberglass Tape 6" and 12" strips. You'll need about 2 Gallons of resin and also about 2 gallons of cabosil

I'll have to do some shopping later tonight or maybe tomorrow- but do you have a rough ballpark figure of what this will cost? I was hoping to be able to use some of the chop strand and woven mat that I had on hand or could get easy locally without going online - but I do want to do it right.

Oh, and one more finally
What should I do about the floatation foam? use the rest of the blue stuff from lowes and stuff it in the flotation cavity after cleaning out the old stuff? Or should I investigate the 2 part pour foam? I'm really trying to keep cost minimal but also have a safe boat. Adding $50-100 for pourable foam right now might start to push this one over the limit for a while. Need a new prop / or repair on my outboard too :grumpy:

thanks.

(pics in next post got to get them off the phone and resize to up load)

 

[Woodonglass]

Wow a lot of info packed in there. I've read it about 5-6 times and have a couple follow up questions.

First, you mention
You mean that I'm using the 3 inch strips (same width and height as the keel) to repair the damaged sections, right? At first I thought it was a typo and you meant 3 foot strips that would replace the whole keel from front to back? So I just wanted to clarify. Correct!!

Also,

I'm not sure that the inside glass of the canoe is damaged from the keel except for the very rear stern area. (I actually can't get to that because of the integral foam compartment (unless I cut a hole in it... (I'll try to attach a pic or two of that from the inside at the end.))
- do you mean on those stringer areas that are cracked?And by "Pinkish" glass I'm assuming you mean non-damaged area? nothing looks pink just off-white color.
The white is either gelcoat or paint. Resin and Glass WON'T adhere to that. You have to sand it off and get down to the fiberglass which should have a "Pinkish" hue to it.
Finally:
I'll have to do some shopping later tonight or maybe tomorrow- but do you have a rough ballpark figure of what this will cost? I was hoping to be able to use some of the chop strand and woven mat that I had on hand or could get easy locally without going online - but I do want to do it right. CSM is Chopped Strand. 1708 is a 17oz biaxial fabric with 3/4 oz CSM stitiched to it. If you have Woven roving use it. It's just harder to work with but perfectly acceptable.

Oh, and one more finally
What should I do about the floatation foam? use the rest of the blue stuff from lowes and stuff it in the flotation cavity after cleaning out the old stuff? Or should I investigate the 2 part pour foam? I'm really trying to keep cost minimal but also have a safe boat. Adding $50-100 for pourable foam right now might start to push this one over the limit for a while. Need a new prop / or repair on my outboard too :grumpy:
The blue stuff will work just fine YOu can use liquid nails to glue it together in a Cube form and then cut it to fit into the cubicle. then use some Canned Foam to fill in any small voids. That's what I'd do. Especially on a tight budget.

thanks.

(pics in next post got to get them off the phone and resize to up load)

See comments in RED above.

 

[CantFishEnough]

No Title

ok, thanks.
for what it's worth, here are the images of the inside showing the compartment where the foam would go and the keel line with the broken stringer/support

 

[Woodonglass]

Yeah, you could use a multi-tool or a jig saw can cut the tops off those boxes and then stuff em full of the blue slab foam then tab the tops back on. Pretty easy to do. The interior keel line is also an easy cosmetic repair. Just need to sand/grind off all the white stuff and get down to fresh glass so the new glass will adhere properly.

 

[CantFishEnough]

Great. thanks! Now just have to make the time to get going on it. I'll try to post up dates as I go. hopefully to get started next weekend.

 

[CantFishEnough]

in process- having to replace the whole keel since it was pretty dinged up and looked like it had small cracks in the original glass under a couple different crummy repairs... will post pics when I get a chance to download them from phone/camera.

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

No Title

been busy with youth baseball and bad weather among other things. Finally had time to pull out canoe and get some sanding done. Did about 6 inches across for now so I can at least get the keel rebuild started. I ran out of 100 grit disks for my little grinder so figure I'd stop there and get the rest of the sanding done after getting the foam glued and taped a small layer of glass over it. Glad I didn't pay too much more for this project... I feel I over paid a bit at just over $100 but figure it's a learning project and I've paid a lot more for a semester of school in the past Since I've only had Aluminum boats in the past this is easier than buying a "Needs TLC" bass boat and finding out I really don't like working with fiberglass

I got rid of all the rotten wood under the old keel and in the bow and stern areas. It looks like they used a small wood frame to build the air boxes (no foam in original canoe - what I found seems to have been someone's earlier attempt to keep stern floating since they had worn holes in bottom. Will add blue foam slabs into both bow and stern for support and floatation.

The "air box" ends seem to have been built around a thin plywood frame after the bottom of the hull was made in a mold.

still open to advice if I'm doing something wrong... hope to do some more work in coming weeks. I wanted to have it in the water this weekend, but still shooting for Memorial day (end of May)... we'll see...

 

[Can'tFishEnough]

One question - there is a pretty thick layer of gel-coat (at least it seems to me - maybe about 1/32 not quite as much as 1/16 - maybe that's normal) - do I need to replace that (is it structural) or just fill in the gaps between the new glass and old gel- scuff up and paint?

I guess what I'm asking is how do I complete the faring between the original gelcoat and the new glass if I don't re-gelcoat it? I'd rather just get a couple rattle cans and call it a day. Doesn't need to be too pretty just functional - will probably get scrapped/scratched up more so I don't really want to take a lot of time and money to make it look like it just came from the factory. Just want it seaworthy enough for lake/pond paddling (and strong enough to possibly use a small trolling motor)

 

[Woodonglass]

Feather it and Paint it!!! As long as it doesn't leak..Who Care's!!! Just make sure to lay down enuf glass to make her strong and seaworthy!!!:rockon: