firearms aboard your boat

[PrplGld]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

LSUFan, I think what he meant was trouble as in you are not suppose to have it and the find it.

Ok then, I'm not really interested in discussing firearms violations, stay legal and you won't have a problem.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

But if your stopped/boarded, I think it would be wise to advise them(officers), of said firearm.
They get real cranky when they run upon one and don't know it's there. Makes them stop to think about the person then.

 

[narukami]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Your legal right to carry a firearm anywhere will depend on who has jurisdiction over the property your on, whether on land, on water, or in the air. The laws that govern your right to have a gun on your boat will be effected by not just State and Federal law, but also local county and/or municipal firearms laws, which may be more restrictive than the State or Federal laws. What might be legal on any given body of water may be illegal as soon as you tie up or dock.

As a former cop (for 10+years), I was routinely asked "what type of gun should I buy for personal protection?". Most of the people asking me this question had little or no experience with firearms.

My concern is not just do you have the right to carry a firearm, but SHOULD YOU carry a firearm, given your individual experience and TRAINING with firearms. The 2nd amendment allows people to own guns (and I have no problems here)... BUT...the 2nd amendment does not place any training requirements on people prior to gun ownership. Most States have little, if any, requirements for firearms training before anyone can legally purchase and/or own a gun. If training is required, most of that training has to do with firearm maintenance and learning which end of the gun the bullet comes out of. Most people who do train work primarily on their marksmanship skills rather than the decision-making process of the "shoot/don't shoot" variety required under the emergency situations most people imagine when they consider the need to carry a firearm. Even military training is inadequate in this regard because the average serviceman' training deals with wartime scenarios as opposed to peacetime civilian scenarios.

The most important weapon anyone can have is their brain. Unfortunately, under stress and/or emergency situations, the brain seems to be the one thing that malfunctions first.

I just thought I'd offer my $00.02 worth (okay....$00.05) and suggest there's more to consider than just whether you have the legal right to have a gun on the boat. (When doing so, however, also consider the land laws while carrying your weapon to and from your boat).

BTW, my generic standard reply to people asking me "what's the best gun for personal safety?" (and my not knowing anything about the person) was always....a shot gun. Why? (they'd always ask.)

1. It's intimidating (the picture of a shot gun and the sound of chambering a round gets everyone's attention).
2. If your intent is to stop someone in their tracks, you do not need pin-point accuracy. You only need to be reasonably accurate to be effective.
3. It's difficult to shoot yourself by mistake.

My apologizes in advance for my re-directing the focus of this thread. This is NOT meant to promote a discussion on the 2nd Amendment's right to bear arms.

Have a happy holiday and healthy and prosperous new year.

 

[JCF350]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

My son is in the Coast Guard and does boardings and we have discussed this subject. As long as you tell them you have a firearm and where it is they will "hold" it till they are done and return it to you unloaded. DO NOT TRY TO PRESENT THE WEAPON TO THEM!! Just tell them where it is at and let them obtain it from it's location.

The very best weapon to have on board is a legal length short barreled shotgun with #5 shot (good spread, some range, good penetration).

 

[seafox 257]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Thanks for all the replies! Moving to florida from chicago is a big change chicago being a city where you cant even own a handgun anymore and florida being anyone who wants a gun can get one. what florida requires for a concealed carry permit illinois requires just to get a foid card. Florida does require training for concealed carry ( just a weekend at a range and instructor) all being said you never know what will happen 20 miles offshore! I go by a saying..... its better to have a gun and not need it then to need a gun and not have it. I do not carry an ak47 with me! lol. i either carry a kimber 1911 or my xd 9mm.
happy holidays

 

[Texasmark]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

We had a new lake open up and in that process there was a lot of collateral (really like that word.....yeah right, after the Oklahoma City bombing) vegetation remaining. I was out with my sons one day in this new lake and was harassed with a boat full of problem makers. Additionally, on occasion, I fished at night and the water moccasin snakes were prevalent. I discussed this with the Texas PWD and was instructed that if I had a long gun, of the shot gun variety on board, I would not have a problem. Hand guns, according to them were of a different nature. So a single shot 20 gauge it was.

I can understand the concern of boarding parties who have absolutely no idea as to what they are getting into, that have requirements for weapons on board. I have no problem abiding with this.

But, if I am in water where my personal safety is at risk, I will contest the governing authority as to their authority, vs my right to survival.....and dude, I will prevail..........in the courts, all it takes is $$$$$$$$$$$

You know that. The law is set up so that he who has the $$$$$$$ wins the case. Of the lawyers, by the lawyers, for the lawyers......where does "We the People" fit in.

Mark

 

[flabum]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

This is a country where those who refuse to abide by the law do whatever they please. The law-abiding citizen has to jump through loops to attain their Constitutional rights. This should be the other way around. IMO, any non-felon should be able to carry a hand gun without ant form of "permission". The Federal government should step in and override all state laws and allow all non-felon citizens to carry as long as they have some form of positive photo ID. Create a national database that a police officer can do a quick background to determine if the person they are inquiring about is qualified to carry and let them be on their way.

The laws do nothing for the honest citizen to help them protect themselves, but also does very little to get the firearms out of the hands of hardened criminals. I think the law needs to focus less on the law-abiding citizen and more on those criminals that run rampant with firearms.

That being said.... I carry all the time on my boat and in my vehicle. I also carry everywhere the law allows me to.

 

[Benny1963]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

hey law changes just need to check out localy
and to the cop trying to say that military people may not have the training
compared to the police dept thats funny because i slept with mine for a year
and probaly fired more rounds in self defence than most police officers will fire in there intire life and spend a lot of my spare time shooting at range for fun
other hrt or swat most of the police are terrible shots and should realy look to some intense baptism by fire to see how good they they think they are
i dont cary on boat unless its summer due to snakes and pwcs lol/
.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

I dunno about the fake one. That could be worse than no weapon at all. If somebody points a gun at me, fake or not, I will assume he is going to shoot me. Then I will retreat.....or shoot back--first!

I didn't say point it at them. You rarely have to point an M-16 at someone to get them to back off. Holding it at all is almost always enough, and that was specific to offshore boating, where you're unlikely to get within 100' of the other person unless they mean you harm. But rest assured, they'll be far more wary to approach you if you're holding what appears to be a fully functional M-16. Criminals don't go after what they think are well defended targets, plenty of other easy victims for them to prey on out there.

Of course a real firearm will always work better, but if you're not willing to carry a real one, this is the next best alternative.

 

[narukami]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

hey law changes just need to check out localy
and to the cop trying to say that military people may not have the training
compared to the police dept thats funny because i slept with mine for a year
and probaly fired more rounds in self defence than most police officers will fire in there intire life and spend a lot of my spare time shooting at range for fun
other hrt or swat most of the police are terrible shots and should realy look to some intense baptism by fire to see how good they they think they are
i dont cary on boat unless its summer due to snakes and pwcs lol/
.

I agree that many police officers are not good shots. You'd be surprised to learn how few police departments maintain sufficient firearms training after their officers complete their initial training at the academy. But, marksmanship is only one part of the equation and I think the easier part. And I think your comments unintentionally underscored a couple of my points.

1. Most people who train work on markmanship. It is an important skill to learn and maintain. However, learning to shoot accurately is the easy part. Learning what to shoot and when is the hard part. And that's something that most people do not train for at the shooting range. They may imagine a "what if" scenario or they may talk about it around the poker table, campfire, duck blind or on an internet forum, but few actually TRAIN to shoot where the problem is the decision making process.

2. My comments about military training were not meant to disparage the training the military provides or impugn your training and ability under fire. I was trying to point out, and perhaps I did a poor job of it, that the military environment is different than the civilian environment. And because the environments are different, firearms training must also be different. Albeit the nature of combat and warfare has changed dramatically since the Viet Nam war, the who and when to shoot is often a much easier question to answer in a military situation than in a civilian one.

The major point I was trying to make is...having the legal right to carry a gun is not the same as knowing how and when to use a gun. And in my experience, too many people who have guns are untrained (or under-trained) and ill-prepared to use them appropriately if they had to. That is a recipe for disaster.

(Although the following is irrelevant to this discussion, FYI, I was our departments SWAT team sniper...and that's all I'll say about my background on this forum.)

 

[Boatist]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

I do not know the answer either but when boarded by the Coast guard before anyone came on board first question they ask was: do you have any firearms on board. My two crew both said no right away. We did have two firearms on board and both were unloaded. We had not done anything wrong and the Coast Guard was just doing saftey inspections. We were still within 3 miles of shore so state waters. I wanted to ask what the law is but was afraid would triger a search of the boat so did not.

Camping on federal land we did have firarms and ask if it was ok. We were deer hunting but camping at the Federal park. There answer was yes you can bring the rifles into the park but they must be fully unloaded both the chamber and the magizene. Also the bolt must be removed and stored in a different location.

Fishing for Sharks in San Francisco bay inside the Golden Gate near harding rock on a party boat a guy caught a Scate about 150 pounds. The Skipper told everyone to put there beer down and move away from the stern of the boat. Then he brough out a 410 shotgun. When the fish was at the back of the boat he shot it and had another fisherman gaf it and broght on board.

In San Pablo and Suisun Bay just further insland people hunt duck and geese from boats in the shallow waters durning the full hunting season.

These are all state water but also federal navigable waters.

California is one of the strickter states. For Example to carry a pistol in the car. It must be unloaded and stored in a place not accessible by passengers. Some place like the trunk. Some say should have a triger lock.

 

[seafox 257]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

illinois too a strict state on gun laws I would get nervous going to the range with 4 guns in my truck everyone in a hard case with trigger locks no ammo within arms reach. Now being in florida I have a cc permit and when i go back to chicago i feel like i forgot my wallet being without a gun. I am not a 100% sure but I believe in florida you can carry a gun in your vehicle legally without a permit. not sure though I have always had a cc permit. When I am out this week I will ask one of the local marine police and see what he says if the laws change offshore.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Boatist, being within 3 miles of shore puts you well withing Federal jurisdiction. Lying to the officers puts you at risk of a full, comprehensive search of your vessel if any weapon is discovered by mistake. If you're going to hide weapons in this manner, make sure they aren't stored where a boarding officer may need to look. A plain view discovery could ruin your day.

Most safety inspections aren't full and complete safety inspections. A suspicious boarding officer can find legal cause to search practically every nook and cranny in your boat. It's all in the documentation. "Had to make sure the electrical wiring was in good shape." Or, "Had to make sure the head plumbing was legal." Or, whatever. Also be aware that if you're more than 3 miles offshore and you're discovered coming to whithin 3 miles, your open to a full customs search. Also boats outside 3 miles with conflicting, or absent port of call information are subject to a full search. A lot of people don't know that about flying the Jolly Roger.

It's better just to give up the weapon for the duration of the boarding. You'll get it back safe and sound.

 

[Hashi]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

It may be okay to carry a concealed firearm offshore but, what happens when you get back onshore. In California, I believe you have to unload the firearm and keep the rounds separated from the gun (trunk and glove box).

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

I'm with DR, man don't lie to the LEOs whoever they are.
That is the worst thing you can do.
If they find one of the hidden guns, it makes you and everyone onboard look real suspicious then.

 

[crazysammy]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Just a dumb question but what will a shotgun help when a snake is in the boat? wont blasting the damn thing put a nice little whole in the bottom of the boat? something i wouldnt want to have happen hehe

thanks for clearing that up
Crazie

 

[erikgreen]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Do the firearms have to be portable? We dive off a coast guard surplus 17 foot Avon boat, and it came with a .50 cal mount.....

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Just a dumb question but what will a shotgun help when a snake is in the boat? wont blasting the damn thing put a nice little whole in the bottom of the boat? something i wouldnt want to have happen hehe

thanks for clearing that up
Crazie

You're supposed to shoot it while it's swimming up to the boat. Once it gets in, that's when it's time for you to get out.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Don't need a gun, Have several loaded flare guns on board.
Ever see what one of them does when fired into a cabin or at someone?
I think I'd rather take my chances getting shot at than take a flare to the chest.
Some of the older flare guns were metal too, many can be chambered to handle shot gun shells as well.
Here's another idea:
http://www.captainforhire.com/equalizer/index.html

While I am sure the legality of such a conversion may be strongly in question, I'd rather deal with the law later than be a victim offshore.

Its not a full auto weapon, but better than nothing.
A flare alone would be enough to deter any sane minded person.

 

[Benny1963]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

myapologies to narukami i may ahve underscored several of your comments
without law enforcement everyone would need and assualt rifle
lots of my buds are now law enforcement .and there are on the majority
more excellent police officers than bad .to shoot or not to shoot was in our shoot was a daily prob for us in dai;ly patrol enviorment. i was to young for vietnam .and strait out combat is diff than civilian patrols .
my apologies sir .
i would rather deal with the penal sys than be caught out unarmed
but having untrained people with guns or criminals with guns is a prob
thanks and sorry for getting off basic subject
Bennyb