First boat search - thoughts?

[a2dubnut]

Hey Everyone,
I'm in the midst of the search for my family's first boat, and somehow already have fallen into 2foot'itis...
Basically - I wanted a 17'-19' Bowrider, easy peasy, right?
Well - not so fast...My wife made the suggestion that we have a place that's covered for our 18 month old son. Good point I think, so now we're looking at Cuddies...
Until she found out that the head is located under a cushion in the bow. Now I'm not saying she's a germaphobe, but - well, ok, maybe she is a little...
So - now the requirement is that we find a boat with a stand-up head, which instantly has me in the cabin cruiser class in the 23'-26' range...
Originally we were looking at trailering and putting in at Lake Wallenpaupack in the Poconos of PA. Now we're considering a wider range of options, all about 1 - 1 1/2 hours away from home, including Trenton NJ on the Delaware River, giving us access to Delaware bay, the Chesapeake, as well as the Atlantic ICW... offshore 1-2 miles on a calm day?

So - now that I've gotten through the back story, the questions...
-Am I crazy for looking into a boat in the 23'-26' range as a first boat? Is it going to be something that's too much to handle for a new boater?
-Trailering, leaves me options - but is this too much boat to really be taking all over NJ and PA just for a bit of versatility? Should I get a slip instead? (yes - everyone's got opinions, I'm curious to know what they are) I've got a '12 RAM 1500 with the 3.92 rear (10k tow capacity - reduced by occupants, 20" wheels - so lets call it a conservative 9k lbs).
-I've got my eye on an '84 Wellcraft 260 Aft Cabin here at a local dealer - he's asking just shy of 6k for it - NADA has it @ 3500 (high retail - not considering options or the including trailer)... this time of year, is that a deal? is it a listing that he's expecting to get 1/3 less than? (it's got a single engine Merc 5.7 with alpha one - hey look, I've learned something from reading the boards!)
All in all, it seems like a good boat, well maintained for it's age - and though I haven't looked at it in person yet - seems promising - survey would be in order if it is the boat we want to go with - any other suggestions, thoughts?

I think I'm done rambling now, looking forward to the insights here!

 

[SigSaurP229]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

I would go back to a 17-19 bow rider with a bimini top or possibly a pontoon? As a matter of fact last year my baby was only three months old and was out on the water on both the pontoon, and the fish and ski. We kept him under the hard top in the pontoon and kept him shaded on the fish and ski. Also made sure to keep him hydrated, and we had a blast.

 

[tazrig]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

To be blunt 23-26 is too much boat for a first timer. There is soooooo much you need to learn first. For instance there is a big difference even between a 17 and a 19 foot in terms of weight, how they handle etc. Start small. You can always trade up... and up... and up etc. For your own safety start out slow. Before you even go out on the water for the first time you should take a safe boating course of some type just to give you an inkling of what you are in for. Contact your local Coast Guard for more info. I have seen so many people go out, get a boat that is way beyond their ability to control and get seriously hurt, do substantial damage to their boat or to someone else's because they just didn't know what they didn't know. Just the systems on a 23-26 compared to those on a 17-19 are a quantom leap more complicated.

Once you know what you're doing towing a 23-26 around is no problem. A slip is nice but they can run $3,000 - $5,000 a season depending where you keep the boat. If you keep the boat in your driveway it is there for you to keep an eye on and easier to work on. Also unless you plan on doing a lot of the repairs yourself or have a thick wallet, a 19 year old 26' Wellcraft aft cabin really wouldn't be the best choice for your first boat. Too big, too complicated, too many potential problems etc. Trust me, start small get used to being on the water and then go bigger. See if you can find a place near you that rents boats for the day. Rent a small 15 footer and drive it for a while. Now try to imagine driving something almost 2 times longer, 2.5 times wider and 4-5 times heavier. I think you'll see my point fairly quickly.

 

[southkogs]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

Somewhere between 20' and 24' there seems to be a big difference in boat SIZE. That sounds a bit funny, but for a newbie making a 20' go vs. a 24' are very different propositions. Personally, I think a 26' boat is too much to start with ... and trailering one is possible, but it's not "easy."

With an 18 month old on board, what you'll need more than cover is patience. Some days the kid'll be having a great time - never take a nap - laugh giggle and do all the fun stuff you love to remember. Some other days ... well, there's more than one type of storm, y'know? Get ready to have to just scrub it - get off the water and go home.

Besides just cruising, what will y'all be doing most of the time? Fishing, water sports?

Welcome aboard, BTW

 

[a2dubnut]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

I appreciate the input guys - now for some long hard thought.
Pontoons, not really my ideal. They don't really call out to me. But on the bimini topic, how effective are they at getting you 'out of the sun' and keeping you that way?
A boaters safety course for me is an absolute must, and though I didn't mention it, I figured it to be a given.
As for our plans with the boat - Ideally just cruising, lounging and swimming. I'm not much of a fisherman (though my father always wished I was), and watersports with my son are a long way off (though neices and nephews are a bit older and would enjoy tubing, so that's a consideration).
Taz, you hit on a point with me that I'd already been thinking of, and probably one of the biggest holdups to me pulling the trigger. Maintenance on a bigger boat, so many systems, lots to potentially go wrong. But the additional consideration of - oh, ya know - stopping a beast that large - gives me some pause too.
Definitely looking forward to getting out on the water - the only question will be - in what
Is there a 'best of both worlds'? Something big enough to fit the family (extended included - not all at once - but there's 8 neices and nephews, and brothers and sisters in law to top it off), but small enough to be manageable by a rookie? (not discounting, but excluding pontoons given they really arent my taste)

 

[bonz_d]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

One of the 1st lessons on boating to learn is that there is no such thing as the perfect boat that will fill all needs and requirements. Always trading off something. Like I can't fish my 150acre pond very well in a 20' bass boat or that 6 people just don't fit very well in my 14' fishing boat. It's harder to overnight in a row boat than it is on a pontoon.

Also from a use angle. The more versitle the boat the more use it will get. The accessable the more use it will get. If I had to drive 1.5 hrs to get to the boat I'm sure my usage would go down. So then you are paying for the boat to float all by it's self! Mines in the driveway when I feel the urge I'm gone. 1/2 hour later I'm on the water.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

Probably way off base, but maybe something like a DC ? The SeaFox 216 is 21' and has a built in head. easy to trailer anywhere, outboard economy/reliability with little maintenance.

 

[JoLin]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

If all you're looking for is a place to put the baby out of the sun, I think an outboard powered cuddy would make a good first boat. Unless you want to spend a lot of bucks on a hobby you don't even know you'll all enjoy, your wife needs to forget the full head. And, with a $6K budget, the bigger you go, the less 'condition' you're gonna get.

While I don't necessarily agree that a 26'er is too big for a first boat, it IS an awful lot for a noob, and a real pain to trailer, launch and retrieve. As for the 8 nieces and nephews, in-laws, etc... be very concious of the boat's TRUE capacity regardless of what the capacity plate says (a 26' won't even have one). I'm running a 27 and won't carry more than 6 or 7 people in it, including me. The boats goes and handles like crap with 7 aboard.

My .02

 

[southkogs]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

...But on the bimini topic, how effective are they at getting you 'out of the sun' and keeping you that way?

It won't really do much more than shade you - but there's two ways to look at this: If you're looking for a way to get the kiddo out of the sun so they can sit still and maybe cut a power nap, a bimini can accomplish it. If you're thinking more along the lines of, "I'll go put the baby down for a nap so we can enjoy the sun for a few hours together honey." Well, nuthin' short of a cabin cruiser is gonna' get that done.

Go to a dealer and climb around a couple of cuddy cabin boats. It's not as much space as you sometimes think. Not sayin' it won't work - but it's not like you've got a bedroom with ya' out there.

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

We love our 250 Sundancer Buuuut, We started out with a 86 210 Sea Ray Seville mid cabin - Loved that boat but the cockpit layout needed something to be desired. GREAT 1st boat for us - Great cabin, Stand up head, sink, fridge - I sold it for $6,600 and it was in great condition. 5.7/Alpha leg.

Here's a pic. LK

 

[a2dubnut]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

@AlWhite - Love the boat - and why didn't you save it for us! That pretty much nails it on what I'd like to have for my family - You said it was your first boat, as a 21'er it still looks large - how was it to learn/take your lumps on?

 

[tpenfield]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

I started with a 24 foot powerboat (cuddy) . . . but had a 22 foot sailboat prior to that (does that count :noidea

If you are doing the family boating thing and heading out for day-long or even weekend excursions, a smaller boat will loose its luster real fast. Better get something that can be useful to you; just take it easy at first. Take the boater safety courses, etc.

Cabin cruisers won't be too good with the water sports and your towing load will be higher, but your vehicle sounds OK. A cuddy cabin will typically have the porta-potti so it will suffice as an 'enclosed' bathroom. Cruisers will have the full stand-up head, with sink, etc.

So, what is the budget ? Based on the boat that you are looking for, it seems to be under $5K?

The problem with a lower budget and the resulting older boats is that they may have some life-long repair /restoration issues in the making. Things like structural rot or an engine that is singing its swan song. You will have to be able to identify those issues in the boats that you look at. so, it will be a challenge. There are some good boats out there, but they will tend to be intermingled with the 'bad' ones.

If you can go bigger in the budget, then it may open up more possibilites.

You can check out my web sites listed in my signature below. My 242SS site is probably the most matching to your situation. I did not know a lot about powerboats when I bought the thing, but had a background in boating, mostly from a sailing and small outboard perspective. The '242' taught me more than I ever thougth that I would know about powerboats. We actually managed to enjoy the boat too.

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

@AlWhite - Love the boat - and why didn't you save it for us! That pretty much nails it on what I'd like to have for my family - You said it was your first boat, as a 21'er it still looks large - how was it to learn/take your lumps on?

As far as the learning curve - The first time we had it out my wife asked me where I learned to drive a boat, I told her I am learning right now. This boat was a GREAT 1st boat, I had no issues with learning stuff and we boat on Lake Huron/Saginaw bay so the weather/waves play a BIG part in our boating. It topped out at 40mph (gps) and cruised around 25.
I have two kids now 13 & 9 and we could sleep all of us in the v berth/mid cabin. You can not find this amount of space in a 21' very often, I saw a beat up one on the side of the road for sale and once I saw how it was laid out the hunt was on. Looked at a couple junkers and then found that one, All of the seating was re-done and the motor was a newer replacement & rebuilt leg. We used it for 3 seasons and last year decided to upgrade a little. I had fixed quite a bit of stuff up just to make it easier to stay on, shore power, fridge, microwave, re-painted all of the fake wood.

If you are looking for a seville look at all of the ads because they also made a smaller Seville with either a bow rider or a cuddy arrangement, You will be looking for the 210 mid-cabin. They are out there but were only offered a few years as far as I know in the mid to late 80's but if you can find a nice one - dollar for dollar they can't be beat. (just avoid the ones with the 470 engine)

When I advertised my boat for sale I got a call in 45 minutes of listing it, that guy ended up buying it, had 3 people that wanted it - great position to be in (for me) this boat was a clean in the bilge as the outside,It was my baby for 3 seasons, knew her like the back of my hand and would trust it to go anywhere, just decided to go bigger. (lots of $$$) and I still miss it sometimes.

BTW when I put a 4 blade SS prop on it it was like a new boat and we pulled the kids on a 2 person tube a lot, worked great for a pocket cruiser. (before there was such a thing) Show these pics to the wife & see what she thinks.

LK

 

[tazrig]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

a2dubnut, You might want to check out this site. It has videos of boat tests with many different size boats and goes into detail about each one. All you have to do is give them your email to be let in. They don't sell your email and every week or so you get a fresh batch of tests, some video some in print. They also maintain a fairly comprehensive library of videos that go over boats, engines accessories etc. A great resource to have for sure:


Boat reviews tests yachts review Specifications comparison Bowrider Center Console Pontoon sportboat Cruiser boat values Ratings Performance Top Speed Engines tests|BoatTEST.com

 

[a2dubnut]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

@ tpenfield - budget would like to stay somewhere around 5, only because it's our first boat, and we want some flexibility for the unknowns. Pretty much quality will be a determining factor - so I'll def take the advice to heart that a few $$s more open up possibilities. A few years from now though - who knows, we get the bug, and budgets go out the window .
@ alwhite - I've been on boats since I was a kid, but the 'how'd you learn to drive a boat' question has already been broached by my wife, so I've already explained to her that for the first couple/few trips, I wanted to take an experienced boater out with me, no kids/no family, so that I can get my bearings. That's not to say that I don't expect some 'oops'es along the way.
@ taz - thanks for the links, I'll have to take a look when I'm at home.

Went to the Philly boat show this past weekend and spent the day drooling - my son was with me, so I guess that makes two of us, albeit for different reasons (teething)
I'd love to go new - but like my first car, I know the pitfalls of inexperience, and would hate to have to call the wife with an 'are you sitting down?' The hunt is on, and I'm being realistic - it's going to take time to find a gem (on budget, in good shape). This season, next season, who knows.
Being a little older - in my 30's - I don't take the kind of uninformed risks that I used to. As much as I want to jump on the first boat I see, I'm trying to gather as much information as possible, and wade rather than dive in.
I've searched CL, boat trader, all of the area marine dealers, and ebay's inventories on line - are there any other resources that I can search out? Should I stay away from the dealers (too much markup - less bang for buck?) What are some benefits of going with a marine dealer on an 80's, 90's boat as no warranties are likely to be avail, etc?

 

[tazrig]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

God I miss summer!!!!

 

[Slip Away]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

Amen to summer !!!

 

[jkust]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

I don't know...our kids boated when they were just a few months old on a bowrider (as did I). Car seat has a canopy and putting up the bimini on really sunny days did the trick. The kid would be hot sitting in an unairconditioned cuddy. Of course up in MN an 85 degree or 90 degree day is about all we get. As for the head...well it is what it is. Never been a problem with anybody in the family to not have one. I'd start with the 19 foot Bowrider or DC as a first boat and deal with what the masses deal with head-wise.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

maybe get a few of those special infant & toddler life jackets . . .

In addition to the web site you mentioned

www.boats.com (not as good as www.boattraderonline.com but may have a few boats of interest)

www.powerboatlistings.com

I think that buying boats off of eBay can be tough, as many will be out of your geography, so logistics come into play.

Craigslist takes a bit of weeding out, but in my last purchase, I sold and bought via Craigslist . . .

I think for your budget, marinas and dealers would not be a sweet spot . . .

 

[jkust]

Re: First boat search - thoughts?

maybe get a few of those special infant & toddler life jackets . . .

In addition to the web site you mentioned

www.boats.com (not as good as www.boattraderonline.com but may have a few boats of interest)

www.powerboatlistings.com

I think that buying boats off of eBay can be tough, as many will be out of your geography, so logistics come into play.

Craigslist takes a bit of weeding out, but in my last purchase, I sold and bought via Craigslist . . .

I think for your budget, marinas and dealers would not be a sweet spot . . .

I've bought 3 cars off of Ebay...but a boat is a bit more of a challenge to me. Possibly a nearly new boat and I'd consider it. What Ebay does really well is quickly educate you on regional pricing differences. You see a boat, nearly new, that would cost X in your neighborhood and the buy it now price is 30% less. Same with cars. I was driven to Ebay every time because I like spending less money for the same things that cost far more money here in MN.