First day of the rest of my life.....

[Plasma George]

Please help me decide.

I've been wanting a boat for years, waiting for my kids to get old enough to enjoy it. So we drive past a POS 1986 Bayliner Capri bowrider (16', outboard) for $1500. My wife said to go for it....so I started doing homework and found a 1990 Bayliner Capri bowrider (18', inboard/outboard) in much better shape, for $2500.

The neat thing about this size is it will fit in my garage, so I won't have annual storage costs.

So now I did find a 1990 Forestor Phantom bowrider (17',outboard) for $3500, and the owner says I have to see it to appreciate it. She didn't seem to motivated to sell, after I asked her why she's asking $4000 for a 20 year old boat.

My question is, I know the Bayliner is a entry level boat....is the Forester an upgrade ? The Bayliner stats say 1490lbs, the Forester says 1100lbs. I'm pulling with a Chrysler 300 (2000lbs max), so I like the lighter weight for towing, but maybe not so much on the water.

What do you think ?
Any suggestions ?
TIA

 

[ezmobee]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

You are looking at 20 year boats. Brand is pretty meaningless. It's all about how it was maintained. That being said I don't think Foresters were anything out of the ordinary. You may want to avoid Force outboards and OMC I/O's as they are both no longer made and parts and service are can be difficult to find. Your biggest concern is wood rot. You want a boat with a solid deck, transom, and stringer. A soft spot on the floor is just about always indicative of serious internal damage on fiberglass boats and is a major project to repair. Don't let any seller tell it's "no big deal".

 

[Plasma George]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

Thanks for your reply, small world.
I'm in Limerick, PA, the Bayliner's in Lancaster, and the Forester is in Marcus Hook.
Here's the active Ebay ID auction for the Bayliner "170360011096". It just says 3cyl, 90 HP. I don't know if it's a Force, and I don't know what OMC is.

 

[Thad]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

In that year range and $$ range, you might want to look at Rinker boats.
You might have to cough up a little more, but it would be worth it.
I would also go for an I/O. Being that old, I would only look at Mercruiser.
If you can swing it, look at some boats in the early 90's bracket. Alot of good boats made then.

And make sure whatever you decide on, GET A WATER TRIAL on it before you write the check. Don't settle for hearing it run on muffs! If they won't take you out, in my opinion, they are hiding something.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

OMG THAT BAYLINER HAS AN L-DRIVE!!!!! DO NOT EVEN THINK OF BUYING THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I've seen that one on Craigslist and laughed at the price then. L-Drives were a strange combination I/O motor with an outboard powerhead. No parts are available. Definitely stay away from that one.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

OMC stands for Outboard Marine Corp. They made Johnson and Evinrude outboards as well as OMC I/O's. When the company went out of business the outboard line was sold to Bombardier which has continued to support them well with parts. The I/O business just died. Nothing wrong with the drives themselves but parts can be tough to find. You want to find a boat with Mercruiser I/O or an outboard by anyone other than Force/Chrysler.

 

[Plasma George]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

OMC stands for Outboard Marine Corp. They made Johnson and Evinrude outboards as well as OMC I/O's. When the company went out of business the outboard line was sold to Bombardier which has continued to support them well with parts. The I/O business just died. Nothing wrong with the drives themselves but parts can be tough to find. You want to find a boat with Mercruiser I/O or an outboard by anyone other than Force/Chrysler.

PLEASE convince me more not to buy that boat.....he seems like a nice honest kid, but you never know...fresh water only. He said he had it "gone over" by an engine shop, and will take me out on it today. He said he's had it out with his friends, and everything works. Almost all new interior, sound system and bimini top which I need with the wife. Should be $200 to get trailer retitled by a trailer outfit by me. 7' beam, and small 20' trailer fits in my garage. I figured $2500, how can I get hurt.

I suppose if I stress my concern over the L-Drive (which I know squat about), and pick it apart I could offer $2000.
Here's the Forester link...she said $4000,, maybe she'd take $3500, it's a Mercury outboard 75....less HP, but a lighter boat.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/1272231601.html
Thanks again for any advice.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

You can get hurt if something breaks in the motor or drive that you are unable to replace due to lack of parts. Plus unlike an outboard boat you can't just swap out the motor. Also, an 18' is not going to perform that well with only 90HP. There's much better out there for $2500. Seriously, find ANYTHING other than an L-Drive.

 

[Kracken]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

STAY AWAY.


You will find it almost impossible to find parts (and you will need parts) plus you will PAY BIG TIME for everything.

That engine is also a 2-stroke.

The boat looks appealing but that shouldn?t persuade you into the purchase.

RUN, don?t walk away.

 

[Kracken]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

Something to consider....

The Forrester weighs 1100 lbs; I believe that is without the motor.


Boat dry weight: 1100, Engine 400, trailer 700, gear, gas, battery 150.

You are way over your towing capacity.

 

[dorelse]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

Run away from the 1990 Bayliner (or any L-Drive) boat. Its a really weird power plant combination, and you will regret purchasing it every day if you do.

Now...I personally own a 1986 1600 Bayliner, so I'm of course a fan, BUT, I completely redid my interior to my liking as it was in sorry shape when I purchased it for $750.00. That said, I wouldn't have purchased it if I hadn't gotten lucky in that the floor is 100% solid.

With any boat of that age, you are going to need to make sure the floor is solid...and soft spots and you need to keep looking, or assume you'll be completely redoing the floor & interior at some point.

If you're mechanically inclined, or at the very least, can follow a manual, the Force Outboard (with iboats expertise & help) can be a good running outboard. Its an old design & mechanically simplistic, which is right up my alley.

The real trick to finding a good 'old' first boat, is that you sometimes its better to spend a little more and get a good solid one that won't nickel & dime you to death, over a 'project' boat that will cost you more in the end.

For mine, I knew I had a good foundation, and wanted a project, so I knew the outboard was solid (had it checked out by a mechanic), and I knew the floor was solid. Since I was going to gut the interior anyway, the rest didn't matter.

Here's mine (and its still not done):

Before (We felt the mold growing on the carpet added a nice 'earthy' smell to the garage as it dried out...need I say more?)

After:

 

[Thad]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

I have to agree. The ONLY thing worse than the L-drive was the Chrysler/Force motor.

You want your first boat to be a good reliable boat that will require some work but not a lot. You might get lucky and not have problems before you upgrade to the next one...but not a chance that you should be taking.

Look at it this way.
Your kids are going to love boating. They will not understand why they can't go out because something does not work, or you can not find the part/parts that you need to get going.
Your wife sounds 100% behind getting a boat. That support will dwindle FAST if and when you start having problems. The money it will require to keep that motor package running will by far be more than if you were to have bought a more expensive boat in the first place. And trust me, that will come back to haunt you.

I do not think either one of us are sayiong that the kid is trying to set you up. We are simply saying that this is NOT a boat you should be considering.
If it were just you and a couple of buddies, maybe, but look at the whole picture.

I just did a craigslist search for your area and I am at work so I can not get into the actual descriptions, but look at Glasstron. There are a few in the late 80's for around 2grand.

 

[Plasma George]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

Something to consider....

The Forrester weighs 1100 lbs; I believe that is without the motor.


Boat dry weight: 1100, Engine 400, trailer 700, gear, gas, battery 150.

You are way over your towing capacity.

WOW, great comments from everyone....I guess I have to take the advice I asked for. It'd be different if there were some Pros for that boat, but it's 100% negative.

As far as towing capacity, I'm at 2000lbs with the stock 300. I assumed 1500lbs for a boat, and 300lbs for a trailer ???
I assumed single axle trailers to be 300lbs or so, not 700lbs.
The towing package from Chrysler has beefier shocks and a radiator cooler, I could install that stuff. The 300 is mycar as a salesman, and don't want to trade it....and don't have room for another vehicle.
What do you think ? I need a 4x4 SUV/Pickup for a 17' boat ?

 

[dorelse]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

I think you'd be under for the 16' Bayliner, but you kind of have to consider my opinion as biased as I like the small size of it...95% of people would find it too small. I've also had good experiences (on the whole) with Force outboards, you'll find people who like them, and others that don't. Parts are available for them, you do need to find a good mechanic who knows them...and in my opinion, that can be the hardest part of all.

We're a family of 4, so 2 adults, 2 kids. I like that its light & maneuverable, and doesn't crowd my garage, and find it to be just a good fit for our needs.

Now...I'll say this...if it didn't sit frozen solid for 6 months out of the year, I'm sure I'd have a bigger boat, but I just don't use it enough to justify any more $ then I already have into it.

 

[Kracken]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

yeah a single axel will be a minimum of 500 lbs

Keep in mind that is dry weight.

You might have problems getting a 17 OUT of the water.

 

[salty87]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

check the gross weight too...don't forget to add your passengers weights

 

[ezmobee]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

An aluminum boat will always be lighter than a comparable sized glass boat. And outboard will be lighter than an I/O. Something to consider.

I successfully towed my Starcraft with a 2000 Buick Regal for two seasons. However it was clearly hard on the car and we did have troubles on the ramp because we couldn't back the trailer in as far with a car as we could with a higher-off-the-ground truck or SUV. After one particularly difficult day I said to my wife "this is bullsh!t, we need a truck." She agreed and we ended up getting a well used full sized Chevy and it's been fantastic having that. I totally understand your not wanting to have an additional vehicle though. The 300 is beefier than my Regal was and should tow better. I would limit myself to 17' or smaller. I'm on the York/Lancaster/Harrisburg Craigslists constantly and I'll post some links for you if I see anything good.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

I'm all for towing boats with cars, I personally put on hundreds of miles pulling a 17 foot jetboat around with my subaru wrx, but... I wouldn't pull either of those with a 300. The all-up ready to go weight of either of those boats is WELL above the 2000 pounds max, and there are going to be a fair number of ramps that you simply will not be able to load at, being a front wheel drive vehicle. If the ramp has seaweed, steep, or even just wet, you will do nothing but sit and spin.

 

[Plasma George]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

EZMOBEE, Sounds great, I'd LOVE to see good suggestions from you.
SMOKINGCRATER, the 300 is rear wheel drive. It does have an aftermarket towing package (Shocks, tranny cooler), that will take 2000lbs to 3500lbs. People have them on Magnums and Chargers, probaly cost me $1000 to get it all installed.

I was all set to goto the bank and get $2500 cash.....BUT I'm an AVID internet and forum freak, mostly Home Theater. I've dumped $15,000+ in construction and equipment based on what the "experts" suggest. I have to hold true here, and pass on the L-Driver. I still may check out the Forester. It's woman owned, and makes me think it's A1 condition being how particular the women are in my life.

I assumed the timing is right to buy now....with these market conditions, finding a great value. I'm concerned now about beefing up the 300's suspension. I suppose I could do that over the winter if I get a boat.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: First day of the rest of my life.....

Rear wheel drive and a tranny cooler....actually that will probably tow pretty decent. I'd still limit myself to around 17' though. What's your budget?

Just a quick look and I found this one: http://delaware.craigslist.org/boa/1280734356.html a bit of a drive for you but you could always go to the shore while you're there Boat looks to be in good shape and the 88HP Johnson is a fantastic motor and good power for that boat.