First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

[WA-Newb]

Hello all...as the name suggests I am a complete newbie to boats and boat motors. I can handle the trailer part of things as well as the cosmetics but when it comes to anything that makes the boat go vroom or move on it's own I am an absolute beginner.

I bought my first boat a couple days ago in hopes to get out and do some fishing this season...it's a 1968 or 69 Glastron V176 with a very old (around same year) 100hp out board. Will definitely have questions on that motor soon (hopefully) but for now I need to learn a little about another motor I got the same day.

Just happened that someone wanted a trailer hitch setup that I had and they had two outboards, some fiberglass...gas tanks and other misc stuff that they traded to me the same day I bought the boat...so now I went from never having a boat or motor to having three older outboards, two of which I have had help starting and running for a few minutes (that's as far as I got with them).

The motor I am wondering about now is a 1977 35 HP Evinrude.
It has no arm coming off it and has a wire harness with an igniton switch attached. The shift lever that is supposed to be on the side of the motor appears to be sheared off and maybe other problems with the shifter since it just doesn't look right to me when I have the cover off (pics will come tonight).

Here is the stupid question...if the prop turns right now by hand does that mean the motor is in Neutral?

I would really like to try and at least turn this motor over today but am thinking (probably bad idea for me to think at this point) that the motor would have some switch in it that will stop it from starting unless it's in Neutral. I don't want to a) hurt anything and b) waste time on trying to start this if it's all for nothing.

On another note for all these motors...would you experienced users agree that I should do a compression test on these before any money is spent at all...or is there a step needed even before doing that? (meaning should something be replaced or added that may impact compression results).

Thank you for reading.

p.s. I will always hunt for answers for awhile before posting questions like this. Seems like I learn a lot more by hunting for them on my own but sometimes I just can't find it.

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Hi and WELCOME to iboats!

My first suggestion is that you do very little with your motors until you feel confident that you understand the basics. Do you know about the proper gas/oil mixtures that your engines require? It's NOT just straight gas....

Outboards need water cooling. Do not start one; even for a few seconds....without water for cooling. It's not so much for preventing overheating. Overheating would not happen in a few seconds...but the water pump (impeller) will be damaged without water.

I would do a compression test before spending any money; yes. That doesn't mean you have to do it before you take the boat out for a spin. If it runs great.....who cares what the compression is

Your 35HP could very well start in gear...it all depends on what mods have been done to it over all those years. If the prop spins freely in both directions...then you are correct in assuming that it is in neutral.

Give us the model number of your engine; that will help in answering questions.

Good Luck! Sounds like you're in for a fun summer!

Chuck

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

The boat (and motors) is at my parents property since I don't have the room here and I didn't get the model numbers off them before heading home last night...I will get them today though.

As for the gas mixture and water cooling...I did know about those since I had been around my buddy's boat a bit and my uncle who looked over the boat with me (and is a life time boater) made me aware of the importance of never starting out of water.

I am really tempted to just put this thing in the water and see how it runs but want to at least make an effort on doing things right.

On that note..if the main motor (the 100 HP) has sat and not ran for over 2 years should I feel safe in running it they way it is OR should I do something with the water pump and impeller? or anything else.
I guess my main concern would be over heating it without knowing...there is no temp guage so what do you look for?
I did see those melt sticks or whatever while searching last night. Not sure if that's the way to go or not though.
As for budget on this project...well let's just say there is none...lol If I have to buy anything it needs to be very important and save me money in the short to long run.
Such as repacking the wheel bearings or replacing them if needed is cheap and could save me a lot of towing money and repair cost. That's the kind of stuff I need to know.

Another example...
If the impeller is $20 and it could save the motor and I can do it myself then I will..if it's $100-$200 or someone needs to be paid to do it then that money goes into the bank for a newer model and I pray it works for a few trips (I wouldn't go out with out a kicker to get me home either).

I am going to head over now and tinker with things...thank you for the help and I will check in later with the model numbers and update...I may be able to get online over there as well.

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

I understand what you are saying; you want to address priorities.

In my opinion I see little harm in looking over the fuel lines and electrical wiring carefully...and then hooking up a battery and fuel tank and seeing what happens. Go slow and look very carefully for leaking fuel and smoking wires.

There is some very slight risk with an un-known impeller; on rare occasions they can dis-integrate and clog the internal water passages with chunks of rubber. Rarely happens that way but there is that chance.

If the engine starts you can evaluate cooling by the pee stream. It won't overheat with just a minute or two of running...if you don't see a stream then you can simply shut it down. If there is good water flow it would be unlikely to overheat; although stuck thermostats and a few other things can change that...so be careful at first. If you idle at the dock for a while...the block shouldn't get so hot that you can't place your hand on it for a second or two....

As for repairs and who ends up doing them....you really don't have a lot of choice there. It's going to be YOU. Most shops won't work on something as old as yours...and even if they did...well; you've already mentioned your lack of budget.

Fortunately....if you have the will...this forum and the net in general will supply you with the way. The support here is awesome.

Keep us posted

Chuck

PS: Yours is a multi-carburetor engine; or so I assume. It's VERY important to be sure that both carbs are supplying fuel; sometimes one carb is partially plugged resulting in a lean condition for the cylinders that it services. Lots of scored cylinders and melted pistons result from that.

So; if your engine starts and seems to have promise (that's the time for a compression test)....then you're going to want to go through the carbs...replace the impeller...etc. to ensure reliable running for the long term.

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Ok this may be an ugly post since I am on a super old PC with no photo editing software (sorry).

I was actually going over all the wires and fuel connections while you posted that so at least I am in the right direction on this.

I did find a couple of wires that give me concern since I don't know what they are for.
One comes out of the ignition switch and just dead end...it's the black one in the second pic.
The other is attached to a terminal by the carb under the flywheel...it just goes to the back of the motor and dead ends.





Since I am working with this awesome program called MS Paint..lol I figured I may as well add the pics of the shift lever problem(s).
I do not know what this is supposed to look like so it's hard for me to tell if this is complete etc.




Here is a pic of the motor in general. The model number is 35E77H, the exhaust looks like it comes out of the prop.


Once I figure out those two wires I will hookup a hose and try to turn it over.
Thanks.

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Ah; you're working with the 35HP now eh? I was assuming you were going for the 100HP first; hence my reference to multi carbs. The 35HP has only one.

Yeah; you're missing pieces from the shift linkage.....not sure exactly what's going on there. Do you have controls and cables etc that came with that engine?

As for the dead-end wires; I don't have a clue.

Another bit of advice: If these engines have been sitting for a while I think I would pull the plugs and squirt a little 2-stroke oil into the cylinders and turn it over by hand a couple of times before attempting starting. It couldn't hurt to assure some initial lubrication.

Chuck

PS: Get the exact model number of the 35HP and go here for a parts diagram.
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1977&hp=35

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Here are a couple of pics I found of a 77 powerhead:

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Just ran home for lunch...not making much progress on the 35 HP anymore...I found where one of the wires went..the black one is a ground and there was a broken cconnector hiding behind the wire harness. Got that one fixed and went to try and turn it over...got nothing...nada...zippo.
I looked at the pics you attached and see there is a bunch more wires on mine...I am "guessing" the wires and post that is attached to mine (where the wire is I need to figure out) is for the electric start. I thought it may be just the generator or charger (not sure the right term) but since you posted that pic it looks like it may be the starting system.

If I can figure out where the wire connects maybe she will turn over.

As for wires etc. coming out of mine...all I have is the ignition switch (no key) and a toggle that looks like it goes to the choke solenoid.

Also if anyone knows if it's o.k. to jump across (by pass) the igntion switch without causing harm I would appreciate it.
Reading the book I have makes me scared to try anything since it talks about 12 volts getting to something and blowing the coil.

Thanks again..I am going back out in the rain to do some more wiring on the boat itself.

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Also if anyone knows if it's o.k. to jump across (by pass) the igntion switch without causing harm I would appreciate it.
Reading the book I have makes me scared to try anything since it talks about 12 volts getting to something and blowing the coil.

Thanks again..I am going back out in the rain to do some more wiring on the boat itself.

I could be wrong...but after looking at your engines ignition layout over at marineengine.com.....I'm pretty sure that it doesn't require a battery to run. The battery is only used for the electric start and choke.

So....if that is indeed the case....you could disconnect everything and just pull start it. 35's aren't too hard to pull start. Just a thought.

From your pictures....I'm not sure if all that wiring on the junction box is original.....that sort of thing makes it tough to troubleshoot because who knows what the PO has done.

Any progress at your end?

BTW....which 100 HP engine do you have?

Chuck

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

I was just getting ready to head back over there when I saw your reply.
I didn't make much progress at all yesterday...the rain / drizzle just dampened my mood....lol

Pretty sure I should probably wait for someone who knows at least a little about these to help me with the 35 HP one...or tell me it's ready to scrap it for parts if that's the case. I may decide to try and turn it over if I can get a decent battery though (no fuel hooked up)...the one I had yesterday was shot I guess so maybe that's why nothing happened at all...but it had been charging for hours so I figured there would be some sort of juice to do something...but I got nada.
If I get someone who knows a little about these to help me then I may try to actually start it...with battery or rope but I don;t want to spend that kind of energy for nothing and possibly do any further harm to this one

Man there is a lot of "Don'ts" when it comes to boats..lol - I just read about the scary phillips screw on the lower unit...read that this motor needs a 70 amp hr battery or power pack will die...read not to use any "auto" parts for ignition since the polarities are reversed...geesh makes me scared to touch or do anything...lol

On to the main motor now...it is a 100 HP is an Evinrude (1968 or 69) Electric Shift (Selectric).
I have been doing some reading this morning and now I want to check / change my lower unit oil but am looking for what kind to use...find a "how to" on the impeller for this motor so I can change that (library is closed today..err)...finish cleaning up some of the old wiring mess...check / tighten steering linkage and wheel...and then perhaps drop it in the water and see if she moves forward or downward .

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Yeah; that 35 is a mystery; eh? If in fact the PO has sold parts off of it (shift linkage stuff...) it would most likely indicate that it has issues of some sort.

I would do a compression test on it before I went any further...and if that proves out OK.....I would take a look at the lower unit oil (if you haven't already done so...) Powerhead issues and lower unit issues are the two biggies that send motors to the dump. It sure looks good cosmetically though; you still might be OK.

For testing compression on the 35....you can always "hot-wire" the starter with a direct lead from a battery. Maybe use jumper cables....black to outboard block ground and red to the hot terminal on the starter. Doing that shouldn't hurt anything ignition related.

Just be sure to ground the spark plug wires while doing the compression test. Coils can be damaged if fired with nowhere for all those volts to go.

Chuck

PS: Selectrics take a special lower unit oil.

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Got side tracked a little (more like a lot) with some plumbing issues at my parents place...oh do I hate plumbing these days...lol
Anyway had a achance to at least grab a good battery and turn the motor over on the 35 HP...I didn't hook up fuel since I didn't want it to start. Since I don;t have a key I went ahead and did two things to get it to turn over.

1) Used jumper cables direct from battery to starter post (ground clipped on battery and flywheel)
2) Used a wire to jump across the ignition switch wires (I think it was red and white)

It cranked over but seemed to crank / turn very fast...maybe this is normal I don't know...just seemed fast to me.
Also I pulled a plug and held it about a 1/4 inch from the spark plug but didn't see any spark.

Would I get spark using one of the above methods to turn it over? I am wondering if it needs to have a power source from another wire from the ignition...I didn't want to try anything else as I was afraid to fry something.

Now on to the 100HP....I didn't do anything to it but I did find something concerning.
The housing between the upper unit (power head?) and the lower unit (gear box?) is a two piece thing and has several broken bolts

I do not know what is in that area besides exhaust tube and shift wires or linkage....but does that unit NEED to be water tight? and what would happen if it (housing only) while out on the water?

This looks like a major job to pull this and try to rethread the aluminum housing...the threads are pretty much gone on several of the holes that have either no bolts or broken bolts. I think there are 6 missing in total...and I have read these things may be almost welded together after many years...I am guessing this would be the case with this one.

After I change / check the lower unit fluid I want to test this on the water but now with the bolt issues I am worried.
Really hoping they are not to critical and I can try it as is.

Thanks.

 

[bullcity101]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

ANy chance of getting pictures? They would help us a lot!

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Glad I checked this right before I was leaving...and I just happened to have a few pics here this time.
The red arrows are where the missing / broken bolts are (or aren't)...and it's on both sides in the same place.

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

RE: The 35....If you still have ignition switch wires hooked up to it...and since you have no key...the switch would be "OFF"...then you would have no spark. Turning over "fast".....hope that doesn't mean that you have poor compression. Time to test it.

RE: the 100....I **THINK** that is just a decorative "shroud". Try removing it and see if I'm right. What is the model number of the 100? With that you can go to marineengine.com and look at their illustrations. Helps a lot.

Chuck

 

[oldman570]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

A good compresion test of the motors is the first thing you need to do. As for the missing shifter parts on the 35 I might be able to help you out there as I have a older 30 hp that most or some of the parts you are missing will work on you 35.Mainly the shifting and some of the wireing. PM me here with any Qeustions.
Oldman570

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

RE: The 35....If you still have ignition switch wires hooked up to it...and since you have no key...the switch would be "OFF"...then you would have no spark. Turning over "fast".....hope that doesn't mean that you have poor compression. Time to test it.

Would this be the same when I jump the ignition wires like I did? To me that way seemed more like if I had a key...but I still didn't get any response form the electric choke doing it that way.

I will be trying to get help witht he compression test now...thank you.

As for the model number on the 100...I didn't write that down but I know its one of two and they appear to be the same when it comes to the parts in question.

I just found the front cover to this for only $16...that doesn't seem right and seems way to cheap...lol
http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=OMC0313084&ptype=&Engine=&Model=

From the "looks" of it I think the bolts screw into this piece and thats what I would need...if I could get it apart that is.

Here is the diagram / parts list taken from.
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...facturer=Evinrude&section=Exhaust+Cover+Group



Based on that picture does it look like I could go ahead and give this boat a run in the water as is without worrying to much?
Or will the world come crashing to an end and the sky will fall if I put it in the water and take it for a spin?

And Oldman570...I will let you know if I may need anything for the 35 HP after I get the compression done....thank you.

p.s. I just found another boat with an OMC 4 cylinder inboard...guy said it ran great two seasons ago but starter went out and then another newer boat was bought so he didn't want to deal with it. The boat, 17' Bayliner looks much better then the one I have and would be more comfortable for my needs...I know the trailer is worth almost twice what he wants for the boat if I can get the title...boat needs cosmetics, oil changed and starter to be sea worthy he said.

As a newbie would going to an OMC setup be a real bad idea...or better for me?
I can at least work on car engines a bit without being too freaked out but not sure if the OMC boat motors are similar or not.

 

[WA-Newb]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Sigh...well looks like I now have another project to figure out.
Decided to check the gearbox oil and here is what I found.


So now I need to figure out what seal is leaking and if there is any damage right?

Can someone tell me the best (or easiet) way for me to proceed with this.
I did notice the screws were pretty loose and the washers are either stuck on the motor still or there were none. I do see blue rings on the motor though and was told the old washers were blue.

My first question though is how would I go about fluching this out?

I want to do that and install new washers...run it a bit and see if it turns milky again.
The type C oil is not cheap though so what should i do to get the milkshake out the quickest?

I usually like learning new things but can tell this learning curve will be a spendy one...lol

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

Well...I'd certainly encourage you to pursue the value of what you already have before you go and buy another boat. What would you do with the Glastron?

Some Bayliners are nice boats but certain models are very poorly built. Find out the year and model and post a question as to all that in the Bayliner forum here. OMC engines are probably GM....but it's the OMC outdrives that seem to have a bad rap. Again; proceed very slowly. You could probably do fine working on the 4-banger...but outdrive repairs are not for the amateur. IMHO.

I wish I could answer the question about ignition on the 35. I still don't think that it needs a battery for spark...but if the remote wiring has a switch...that switch could be grounding the ignition. If there is a plug at the engine...I would try un-plugging it and try again for spark.

But; none of that is your immediate concern. Compression testing is very straight-forward....and needs to be done. On the OMC engine too for that matter. Never buy an engine for serious money without first checking compression and evaluating the lower unit. That's where the real money is in repairs; not only in parts cost...but in complexity. Fixing those areas is challenging even for the pros.

Then; lastly...on the housing on the 100....I guess my concern there would be why are the bolts missing. What sort of problem was the PO attempting to fix? I think it's just a cover..and I think that IF you got good compression numbers...and IF you got the engine started...and IF she was pumping water and not going on fire at the dock....LOL...then I think that it would probably be OK to take a quick test run with no dire consequences. Still.....people don't just go taking bolts out of an engine for no reason.

BTW....how's the transom on that boat?

Chuck

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: First Post - First Boat - First Motor and First Stupid Question

View attachment 149269


I did notice the screws were pretty loose and the washers are either stuck on the motor still or there were none.

I want to do that and install new washers...run it a bit and see if it turns milky again.
The type C oil is not cheap though so what should i do to get the milkshake out the quickest?

Sorry to hear that. I would do the compression test before spending ANY money on type C oil. If the compression tests out OK and you have spark....then if you're feeling spendy I guess you could take a chance and refill the gearcase and see what happens. Those selectric gearcases are very well engineered and work very well when maintained properly.....but they've gotten a bad rap and many shops won't work on them. Those that do charge a lot.

There is some chance that the water intrusion was caused only by the faulty gaskets. It's possible...and if the rest of the motor checks out OK I would take that chance to fine out.

Chuck