First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

Update: for whatever reason, when i screwed the switches back in, with the motor off, they started working, bilge switch actually works, but they engineered it to wrap the power wire around the battery post. Horn honks. Not sure about any of the lights, will have to investigate. I don't have a tach. I have a speedometer. That's what the hose is for. Not sure how that plastic piece works.

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

Edited for new information.

Took her out for about two hours this evening. Took a little bit to get her started when I first got there. Got her to the dock, killed her, took a few times to get her started again. The fuel hose connected to the tank has come off a couple of times. I probably need to replace it the adapter, but looks new. After I got her started and let her warm up a little bit, she ran good, no bogging down or dying. Didn't die the whole time I had her out. Killed her a couple of times, started right back up. Motor seems to be running good.

Shifting seems a little rough. Noticed a new issue with shifting. Having trouble shifting from forward to neutral, and from reverse to neutral. Experienced this several times, at different times. The arm assembly has a piece on it (interlock cam I think) that you can adjust with screws. In neutral, this piece should be rolling over a little white switch (interlock switch, I think). It seems to be a little off when switching from forward or reverse to neutral. Not sure what to do about this. I think there is too much "slack" in the throttle lever. I have to move it about 75% of the way before it will throttle up. Same in forward and reverse. Not sure if this is keeping me from WOT or not.

Idle is a little high. I adjusted the idle screw on the carb per previous post. Screwed it in until it started getting tight, backed it off 1 full turn yesterday. The throttle cam (I think) that moves against the roller when you throttle up/down does not go back to starting position when shifting from forward to neutral, and from reverse to neutral (with motor off). After shifting back to neutral, I can push that piece with my hand about 1/2 to 1/4 of an inch up, which would be throttle down. I think this is causing high idle. I'm not sure how to adjust this properly.

Will pay closer attention to all of these things tomorrow when I take her out tomorrow. I'll pull the cowl off and run at WOT long enough to see if the carb shutter opens completely up in the water. While I've got it opened up, I'll check the interlock cam and interlock switch on the gear shift linkage, as well as look at the throttle cam and roller.

Seems like I have a few issues with the wiring, quite a few things are hinky. Is there a thread that deals with wiring?

Taking her back out tomorrow.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

That screw is an AIR screw,not an idle screw.
It meters the amount of air/fuel at low speeds.
Idle is set with the towershaft.
First post in the Force Forum, theres a post by FrankA called a linc and sinc. Do that.

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

Lol. Okay. What's the setting for that air screw? It's screwed out 1 turn.

Edit:

Came back to the house so my son could sleep peacefully (2 years old). He went riding with me this afternoon. Working on the link and sync. First five steps are in the bag. However, the rest of the steps are beyond me. I don't know how to adjust timing, I don't have a tach for RPM adjustments for the idle, and have no idea where or what the needles are on the carb. Will probably have to wait until I get a tach and my manuals have arrived. What tach do I need for this motor?

I think I may have fixed the shifting problem now, but will check it when I go back out. Fortunately there's a boat ramp pretty close to me.

2nd Edit. After adjusting the interlock cam a little bit to go over the interlock cam switch better, and adjusting the throttle cam per the link and sync post, I took it out for a few minutes. Shifting from Forward to neutral is better, and it will pretty much shift into neutral every time. Shifting from Reverse to neutral is still tricky and requires some maneuvering which sometimes requires pushing the lever up past neutral into forward just a tad before it switches to neutral. Will adjust again to see if it helps.

Okay, the problem with the idle being too high when shifting into neutral, is that the tower assembly arm is not going back far enough. When I switch from full throttle back to neutral in either gear, the tower shaft does not go back far enough for that screw to touch. A little pressure on it, and it will go back pretty easily to where the idle screw contacts the head. I put some gear lube over all the moving parts that I could see that might be affecting it from coming back, but didn't seem to make much of a difference. I don't know how it works when going from full throttle back to idle, and what pulls it back, or what I need to try to adjust. There's some kind of arm that comes out from under the flywheel that has an adjustable screw and nut into a plastic piece on each side, but not sure what that does. Any suggestions?

 

[dirtyrice23]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

I think that may b ur timing adjustment screw. Idle adjustment is the screw with the nut at the bottom of the tower.

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

here's where i am at now. Got the service manual and clymer manual and have learned a lot. Got most of previous issues under control or figured out what was causing them. Still haven't bought digital timing light to adjust timing and idle yet, but it's coming.

Here's the major issue i now have. Took her out a couple times, no issues. Worked on her this last weekend, and Bendix stopped sliding up to engage flywheel. Added a little lube to make sure it wasn't stuck, worked it up and down, no luck. I can manually slide it up, and it will engage and start the motor. If it didn't crank right away, i can turn the key, and it will engage by itself and start. However, after cruising up the river, i killed it, fished for a little bit, and the problem returns, will not engage by itself. I slide it up to the flywheel, it engages, and starts. This was Sunday. Monday i go to work on it, cannot get starter to do anything. All i her is some clicking, and sometimes only one click, and then nothing. I run through some trouble shooting in my manual, everything checking out, try to start it again, clicks a couple times, then starter starts spinning again, Bendix still not engaging. Battery is good, battery cables are good, getting power through the fuse. Tried jumping from battery to starter relay, and from starter relay to starter, didn't help. Thought it was the Bendix, but since it will sometimes slide up on it's own, i don't think that's it. Thinking it has to be either the starter relay or the starter. Going to have the admiral turn the key for me while i check with the meter for voltage drop. Really want to get it starting right by this weekend. I can find a new starter relay locally, but will have to order Bendix and/or the brush kit. Again, I'm not sure of exactly what's going on, since the starter does spin but maybe not fast enough to engage the Bendix, so I'm thinking it is probably either the starter relay, a voltage drop, the cable to the starter, or maybe i need to take apart the starter and clean it, check the brushes, etc.

Any other suggestions or advice? I could really use some help!

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

So when I got home, I filled the battery completely full of distilled water, disconnected it, and hooked it to the charger. Charger said it was at 90%, so went ahead and let it charge until it said 100. Scraped at the terminals on the cable and the battery, hooked the ground back up, and ran a jumper cable from the positive to the battery, and tapped it to the positive on the starter, fired the starter, and the Bendix slid up. tried it for just a second a couple times, each time it slid up. When I get a chance, taking the battery to get it load tested. Also going to get the Admiral to turn the key for me so I can confirm voltage coming from starter relay to starter, and test starter relay. Considering the prior issue I had with it not wanting to turn over at all and only click, I am now leaning toward it being the starter relay.

Ideas?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

here's where i am at now. Got the service manual and clymer manual and have learned a lot. Got most of previous issues under control or figured out what was causing them. Still haven't bought digital timing light to adjust timing and idle yet, but it's coming.

(Here's the major issue i now have. Took her out a couple times, no issues. Worked on her this last weekend, and Bendix stopped sliding up to engage flywheel. Added a little lube to make sure it wasn't stuck, worked it up and down, no luck. I can manually slide it up, and it will engage and start the motor. If it didn't crank right away, i can turn the key, and it will engage by itself and start. However, after cruising up the river, i killed it, fished for a little bit, and the problem returns, will not engage by itself. I slide it up to the flywheel, it engages, and starts. This was Sunday. Monday i go to work on it, cannot get starter to do anything. All i her is some clicking, and sometimes only one click, and then nothing. I run through some trouble shooting in my manual, everything checking out, try to start it again, clicks a couple times, then starter starts spinning again, Bendix still not engaging. Battery is good, battery cables are good, getting power through the fuse. Tried jumping from battery to starter relay, and from starter relay to starter, didn't help. Thought it was the Bendix, but since it will sometimes slide up on it's own, i don't think that's it. Thinking it has to be either the starter relay or the starter. Going to have the admiral turn the key for me while i check with the meter for voltage drop. Really want to get it starting right by this weekend. I can find a new starter relay locally, but will have to order Bendix and/or the brush kit. Again, I'm not sure of exactly what's going on, since the starter does spin but maybe not fast enough to engage the Bendix, so I'm thinking it is probably either the starter relay, a voltage drop, the cable to the starter, or maybe i need to take apart the starter and clean it, check the brushes, etc.)

You know how hard it is to read that??
Break it down into sentances or smaller paragraphs.
Glad to help but I'm partially blind in my left eye and have a hard time following.

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

I think I fixed the issue, so the post is kind of mute. Filled the battery up with water, charged it up, took a dremel to the terminals, battery cables, and all the wire terminals I could get to, such as starter to starter relay, all the wire terminals on the relay, all the terminal block wires, etc. Turned the key, starter spun for a moment, then kicked up and started engaging the flywheel. Cranked it up, let it idle for a little while, killed it for several minutes, tried it again, fired right up. Will test it again tomorrow to see if it's still working. Left the charger on trickle for a couple hours this evening afterwards.

This is now my question. I plan on buying a digital timer with rpm tomorrow, so I can adjust timing and idle, so I can adjust air/fuel. The procedure for cranking timing seems easy enough to follow, I don't have a "spark plug tester" that the factory manual suggests, but I can rig something up to ground the spark plug wires, which is pretty much what the tool is doing. I've already got a jumper to use for the interlock switch. The Clymer manual I bought has a good bit more information than the factory service manual, and has a warning to remove the propeller because it has to be in gear to get the throttle to WOT. That's for cranking timing, which I can do at home.

For dynamic timing, obviously I'm not going to do that while the boat is moving, LOL. but I can't run at WOT in my test barrel because it'll throw ever bit of water that prop can touch right out of the barrel into the boat, I know, because I did this by accident. But either way, the Clymer says to remove the prop and install a test wheel. I don't have one, and I don't have a spare propeller that I can try to modify.

Has anyone done this without a test prop? How did you do it? I would really like to do this by Friday afternoon.

Also need to try and find proper propeller specs so I can replace the propeller.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

No way to modify the prop into a test wheel.
The test wheel is heavier and you'd never get the right results.
Static timing is the closest your gonna get.
I made a 3 wire, ground wire setup.I used #10 or #8 wire.See pic.
The spark testers can be the cheap ones from Auto Zone.
Adjusting the air/idle can be done on the hose.Just warm it up.
The air screw in till it just bottoms,then out 1 turn.
Motor warm,running.Turn the screw in till it coughs,bucks,stalls.
Then out 1/2 turn.
The idle rpm's about 1100 Then next time your out,adjust it in gear as you back it in the water,even tied to a dock or under way.

Replacing the prop?
That will depend on a BUNCH of things??
What do you have now?
To find the right prop,you need to run the boat and see how many RPM's at WOT.
I think your motor's rated about 5200-5500rpm's.
If your running at specs, then the prop you have is good.
Rpm's low then you need to resize down.
Too high,then go up in pitch.

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

View attachment 190970View attachment 190971No way to modify the prop into a test wheel.
The test wheel is heavier and you'd never get the right results.
Static timing is the closest your gonna get.
I made a 3 wire, ground wire setup.I used #10 or #8 wire.See pic.
The spark testers can be the cheap ones from Auto Zone.
Adjusting the air/idle can be done on the hose.Just warm it up.
The air screw in till it just bottoms,then out 1 turn.
Motor warm,running.Turn the screw in till it coughs,bucks,stalls.
Then out 1/2 turn.
The idle rpm's about 1100 Then next time your out,adjust it in gear as you back it in the water,even tied to a dock or under way.

Replacing the prop?
That will depend on a BUNCH of things??
What do you have now?
To find the right prop,you need to run the boat and see how many RPM's at WOT.
I think your motor's rated about 5200-5500rpm's.
If your running at specs, then the prop you have is good.
Rpm's low then you need to resize down.
Too high,then go up in pitch.

So there's no way to really adjust dynamic timing? From what I understand, 30 degrees btdc at full throttle is more important than 32 degrees btdc at cranking.

You said idle rpm's at 1100, but the manuals I have say 750 in forward gear at idle.

Motor is rated at 5500rpm at WOT. The timing light that I'm going to buy has an rpm indicator in it, because I don't have one in the boat. so I'll have to take her out and attempt to read it while at WOT, haha. May have to get someone to help me with that. Can I tie her to a dock with some high strength rope and try to do the dynamic timing? Thank's for yoru reply!

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

accidental repost

 

[hundee r1]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

I had similar questions in regards to timing at wot. I simply disconnected the control cables at the motor and was able to achieve full throttle at crank by just manually moving the tower mechanisms. Just need 2 people to do so with one cranking the motor, the other holding the motor at full throttle at the motor. Having the plugs out (but grounded) allows the motor to rev faster which helps.

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

Well, adjusted the timing today while the Admiral turned the key. As far as I can remember, I followed all the proper steps, and got cranking timing at 32 degrees. Going out tomorrow morning, and going to attempt to test it at wot on the water.

One thing I noticed after I got the timing adjusted as best as I could, but the RPM indicator seemed to not be accurate. The timing light does not not have any kind of controls to change rpm settings, such as 2 stroke/vs 4 stroke, or cylinders, etc. When I adjusted timing down to a point where if I went lower the motor would die, the RPM's on the timing light were reading about 12-1300 rpm. Any suggestions short of getting a tach installed and rechecking?

Found some numbers on the prop, not sure how to read them.

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

Figured out how to read the numbers on the prop with some help from a poster on another forum. Figured out that the timing light I have is not adjustable from two stroke to four stroke, so it was reading RPM as if it was a four stroke, which means the RPM I was getting from the timing light was multiplied by two. I have a number of things purchased and am awaiting on them to be shipped/arrive, such as a new set of Faria gagues which includes speedo and pitot kit, voltmeter, tach, and fuel gauge, fuel sending unit, and everything I need to wire the gauges and rewire the boat and panel harnesses, as well as primer, paint, and a non-slip additive for the interior deck and sides. After I get the new harness in, and the gauges wired up, I'm going to take her out and let the admiral steer while I compare the readings on the new tachometer to the readings I get simultaneously with the timing light to determine accuracy. Then I feel comfortable that I can accurately set idle, judge wot RPM, adjust air/fuel ratio, and complete the link and sync.

The link and sync article here starting at number 8 talks about adjusting the needles on the carb. I know where these needles are at on my carb, but I'm not sure how to tell which one is low and which one is high. It also doesn't cover the idle mix (air mix) screw. Jerry mentioned above how to adjust the air screw, and that's covered in the manual. Do I need to readjust that screw after adjusting the jets?

 

[joshackley]

Re: First time boat owner, motor has a few issues, Please Help!

Thanks again to everyone that tried their best to help me. After pulling it out to get it ready for the season, I had a lot of trouble with it. I got it running a couple of different times, but every time I turned it off, and tried to crank it back up, it just wouldn't do it. Finally took it to a mechanic, he says the powerhead needs rebuilt, cylinders need bored, needs new pistons, rings, etc. Found another motor exactly like mine for $700. Would be good, because I already know a good bit about the one I have, and I would always have it for spare parts, such as the lower unit, ignition, wiring harness, starter, etc. Starters can run about $100, lower unit about $300, carb about $100, fuel pump about $40, about $50 for new coils, and over $200 for ignition. Either I can save the parts, or I can sell them off and make my money back. Going to look at the new motor Saturday.