First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

[Jason89sunbird]

Bought a 500 dollar special, cracked block and interior shot.. redid interior, not fancy but wont hurt to sit on lol. Had a vortec out of 1997 blazer so I installed it with cast iron vortec 4bbl manifold, regrind cam duration 210ex 210in lift 440ex 440in lsa 112, holly carb, 90 blazer dist, 97 blazer coil and 67 camaro water pump(11.99 at oreilly's. original omc cobra harmonic balancer, pulleys, brackets, starter, alt and p/s pump. The boat already had merc manifolds with 3"risers(why 3" risers???, should have been 4") Purrs like a kitten, shift into gear out of water with a slight grind both foward and reverse. So I took it out on the Willamette river in Salem OR for the first time after work. it shifted into gear again with a grind and a stumble (esa working?). once in gear it ran like a champ even with the carb over jetted for a v8 but it wouldn't shift out of forward to neutral at all, the rpm's were about 1500. Were the rpms to high or do I have a dreaded shift cable alignment problem?

Thanks in advance, Jason

 

[Bridar]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

At 1500 rpm, the clutch dogs can't release when under load (when in the water). When using the muffs there is no load so it will seem to work fine when out of the water. 1500 rpm is too high for shifting anyway and you'll be at risk of loosing your lower gearset. If the ESA is working properly, it should be shifting at approx 600 rpm. The microswitch is kind of finicky so it may just be out of adjustment.

 

[Jason89sunbird]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

I kind of figured, just wanted a second opinion. Tach said 1500 but when I timed it tach said 1050 while the snapon light said 770. Thank you

 

[bruceb58]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

Your ESA isn't going to work with that automotive distributor you have. Not only that but you now have an explosion hazard.

When you get the shifting figured out, make sure everything else is marine like your carb, starter, alternator, fuel pump and water pump.

 

[Jason89sunbird]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

Why won't the ESA work with that ignition? It's just sending a longer ground to the coil to cancel a cylinder. Looking at my marine dist with points had the same vent at the bottom of the housing which is two screen mesh about 3/8 in size. Yes the carb isn't marine but all the other accessories are marine which I stated in the first post.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

Why won't the ESA work with that ignition? It's just sending a longer ground to the coil to cancel a cylinder. Looking at my marine dist with points had the same vent at the bottom of the housing which is two screen mesh about 3/8 in size. Yes the carb isn't marine but all the other accessories are marine which I stated in the first post.

If you want to see if it works, just depress the ESA switch and see if it stumbles the engine.

You NEED to replace the distributor and the carb so getting this to work with what you have is a waste of time. You have a major explosion hazard with what you have now. Curious, what did you do with the hose that normally goes from the fuel pump to the carb for when you have a marine carb and the fuel pump fails? The distributor is also completely curved wrong as most likely it depends for some of the advance on a vacuum advance. A marine distributor gets all of its advance from a centrifugal advance so your engine won't even run very well with the distributor you have.

Your water pump is also going to fail eventually especially if it ever sees saltwater.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

I have to go with Bruce on the non-marine carb and ignition. But the water pump should be fine. Not much salt water in OR I suppose. Check your ESA I still don't understand how you made it work with a car dizzy but I guess all is possible.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

But the water pump should be fine. Not much salt water in OR I suppose.

Fresh water can still kill it but it will take longer. Automotive water pumps are designed to operate in an environment with coolant which means lubrication. Not much lubrication in fresh water. Marine water pumps have a ceramic seal because of this.

Not much saltwater in the city Salem, Oregon but 50 miles away there is!

 

[gbeltran]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

You know, a 1990 Blazer uses the same distributor as the one in the Delco Voyager kit. It just doesn't have the J1171 (marine approved) tag on it. He should be able to get that wired up with the ESA.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

Putting the marine spark shielding asside, the Voyager has a pin for the shift interrupt system to connect to. Does the automotive distributor have that connection?

 

[gbeltran]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

Yes. The pin isn't there specifically for the interrupt, it's just part of the module wiring. There should be a 2 pin and a 3 pin hookup. I will be one of the first to tell people not to use automotive stuff in a covered engine compartment on a boat, but this distributor is the same as the marine unit. Now any issues that come up from not having the J1171 ink stamp, can't really say.

 

[Lou C]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

You have to get the OMC ESA working right and the idle set right as well or else you will never get it to shift out of gear with the load of the water on the prop. Your idle should not be more than 600 rpm, when you shift in the water, from in gear to neutral, the ESA will lower the idle to about 450 rpm. I still have the original Prestolite dist with points, and my Cobra shifts fine. I have gotten the engine's state of tune to where it will idle without stalling at 550 rpm. OMC's spec for idle is 500-600 rpm in the water in gear....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

Yes. The pin isn't there specifically for the interrupt, it's just part of the module wiring. There should be a 2 pin and a 3 pin hookup. I will be one of the first to tell people not to use automotive stuff in a covered engine compartment on a boat, but this distributor is the same as the marine unit. Now any issues that come up from not having the J1171 ink stamp, can't really say.

The automotive unit also has the capability of retarding timing when a knock sensor senses a knock. Just because the distributor may look the same from the outside and has the same number of pins does not mean it is electronically the same. The module itself is a solidstate unit that just screws to the distributor body. There is no wiring for the module itself other than the 2 connectors. Also, the marine module is a 2 pin and 4 pin hookup which may be the same as the automotive version although you stated 3 pin.

 

[gbeltran]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

I apologize. There is a 4 pin and a 2 pin in the automotive unit also. (there are also two more pins hooked up to the pickup inside the distributor) Both units provide 20 degrees of advance depending on RPM. I can't find any difference in the 2 modules. The car will ultimately end up with more advance since it's hooked to a computer, that's what that 4 pin side provides is a path for that, and also for the spark retard you mentioned from the knock sensor but that is also controlled via the computer.

 

[Jason89sunbird]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

This has turned into a good post.. I'm glad I was playing on my other toys this weekend so I didn't voice my opinion early. Saltwater 50 miles away from Salem Oregon, where???? Vacuum advance only automotive dist??? All dist use mechanical or electronic advance, vacuum is ONLY for fuel efficiency... I have read the 96 and newer efi boat dist have the 2 and 4 pin connectors, 4 pin has a water proof dummy plug plugged into it. If that isn't the case please tell me how it works so I can educate myself and maybe incorporate into my boat.. The difference between an automotive water pump and a marine water pump is a ceramic seal, stainless steel back plate and bronze impeller vice stamp steel and normal seal. If you are going to criticize know your facts please... I'm curious what you think about the camshaft??? I have read a lot of ignorance when it came to camshafts lol!!!!

 

[Jason89sunbird]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

Just reread and saw Lou C post, that is real info that tells me a lot, Thank you Lou C. Also thank you gbeltran for helping not to spread ignorance and help teach whoever is reading this post. My girl was adamant I build this boat properly, she saw the result of a burned up boat and what it did too the people on board at lake Shasta. She is the reason I tore my starter apart to see the spark arrestor. The reason I looked at an automotive dist cap and marine cap(no difference). The reason I tore my crappy points dist apart to see if it had a spark arrestor under the mechanical advance, nope.. Granted I'm a self taught ASE Advance level master mechanic with two scores in the high 80's range and the rest in the 90's from 9 test. I'm always the one who will take the blame if something happens under my watch... Maybe that is why I served my country for 9yrs and made my superiors scramble because of their laziness.... When my captain gave me and another sailor our departure sit down he said, "I already know how you feel about this command" and then asked the other his thoughts... That is a story in itself!!!!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

The difference between an automotive water pump and a marine water pump is a ceramic seal, stainless steel back plate and bronze impeller vice stamp steel and normal seal. If you are going to criticize know your facts please...l!!!!

Check out my post #8.

Saltwater 50 miles away from Salem Oregon, where???

Pacific City on the Pacific Ocean counts right? I have actually been there. Have cousins that live in Salem by the way.

You don't need to take my advice. You can keep running with your auto carb(yes, a major explosion hazard) and shift at 1500 RPMs all day until you wipe out your dog clutch.

I won't ever bother you again.

 

[Jason89sunbird]

Re: First time out. Won"t shift out of gear while boating, cables or rpm??

I know where pacific city is, cute little town that's 60 miles away.. Your first post was condensending to me and showed that you didn't even bother to fully read my post. I cut the top off my engine cover due to the carb issue of the vent not having a "j" and no spark arrestor air cleaner yet. Previous owner already hacked it up to widen it to fit the merc manifolds. Because Lou C gave me such good and specific info on idle speeds I won't run the boat in the water until I reach them.