FishBottom Finder reading

[Shamfarlango]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

Comparing manufacturers doesn't seem to change whether you are talking depth finders or cars. The old ford guys never hand a good thing to say about chevy and vice versa. Why should depthfinders be any different.

I have no loyalty. I can say you get what you pay for as far as quality. If you plan on using all the fanciest of gadgets, buy a good one. If you want to see basic depth, contour and fish displayed buy a cheap one.

I have a bass pro shop special ($99) on my runabout that i use for fishing. If helps me find my fishing spots/depths. The cute little fish on the screen seem to be BS. I have a Raymarine combo on my cruiser that i use for navigation, speed validation, closest marina and finding me good anchorage. You can make these as complex as you want really. I"m sure mine has a million other features, however...I just don't have the need.

 

[giericd]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

Thanks dingbat. It never ceases to amaze me how much advise someone can give who doesn't live here, fish here, grew up here. Having OWNED a marine electronics shop, been and still am a marine electrician. I do have an opinion of who to trash. Based on warranty, dealer support, parts availability when something could be fixed cheap, durability in a salt environment, performance versus cost. There are no bass boats 20 miles offshore in 3 foot seas.
Chriscraftf you must work for them. Cornered the market??? What have Garmin and Hummingbird been doing???? How would you know that???

What's your deal bro? You have mentioned several times "bass boats" did you have a bad experience as a child on one? No one is talking about bass boats, or off shore boats, or bay boats for that matter, if you want a discussion on this boat to that go over to the boating thread. Get off the bass boat thing, you mentioned you have been a dealer of marine electronics, well that would explain you negative attitude toward BASS PRO no little guy can compete with a store like that so I can understand your feelings but if those personal feelings for a huge store get in the way of you being able to give good neutral advise then don?t give your advice. Since you are "in the industry" being a marine electronic dealer you shouldn?t be asking questions that discredit yourself, to answer your question of "what have Garmin and Hummingbird been doing" Garmin is the leading GPS NAVIGATION company in aviation in the world, Hummingbird was the inventor of side scan which is a technology break through it has it's time and place where it is very useful and opens the door to new innovations in marine electronics, and both of them have been making great quality marine electronics along with Lowrance and other brands. And your comment to dingbat, does a navigation/depth finder work different or send a different return depending on where you are located or how long you have fished an area??? That?s news to me! Must be the brand you are pushing because my Lowrance works the same regardless if I am in the Keys, 10,000 islands, Naples, Boca Grande, or Tampa Bay regardless it I have fished that area a hundred times or if I am exploring new waters. I understand how to read my unit (which was part of the original post) and that?s why I have successful trips. Come down to Naples some time with your unit that won?t work for you because you are not familiar with my waters and I will come save you with my Lowrance. Wouldn?t that add insult to injury!

 

[jere1972]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

I took a trip to West Marine this weekend, this were some options in my new budget that I found, Lowrance Mark-5x pro finder only(Mono)@$199or the Mark-5 with DSI @$299, Humminbird 718 says that it is gps upgradable(Mono) @$199, Lowrance elite 5x @$449, Garmin combo 441s @439 no transducer, Raymarine A50d combo @699. there are just way to many choices, and the sales guy was just pushing me to the HD stuff in the $900-2000 range, not possible, I just need a good unit that is easy to use don't need bells, really don't think I need a gps, however mine appears to be old, and difficult to use, it does not apear that a combo is that much more then the sounders, there also seems to be a huge difference in mono screens and color, does having color really matter, and just how much better is this DSI imaging that the sales dude was pushing @ me, some one here stated DI/SI was a waste unless your were in calm water! the garmin 441s looked ok(small screen) and the Raymarine A50D look ok too but 100 now over my new budget, so REALLY NEEDS SOME HELP!!!!!! I'm guessing what I buy will come from West Marine, don't know of any where else to get one except wal-mart, and I really don't want to do the used one from CL or e-bay

 

[giericd]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

jere1972,
I understand being on a tight budget and wanting the best unit you can afford for what you are trying to do. HD is nice but not needed, color is nice but not needed it is just harder to tell hard bottom from soft bottom with out it but for the small price difference i would go with a color unit it is much nicer and easier to read. If you are trying to run off shore to about 130' find good bottom and have fun fishing you dont need side scan/radar..... I did some home work and looked up the units you listed above and here is what i found. For the options you will need and the price range you want I would go with the Garmin combo 441s! It looks like it has good maping/navigation to get you where you want to go and back home and you will be able to return to your spot again another trip. It is a color unit which is easier to read in finder mode and in map mode as well. Garmin units are a little more user friendly and easier to use than other units for some one starting out. You can get the transducer for around $40-$50 in fact i bought a nice new transducer for my Garmin and shortly after I killed my unit (that was my fault) I think I still have the transducer and it was only used for about 4 mo. if it is compatable with the Garmin 441s I will mail it to you if you cover the postage that should save you around $30-$40. Here are some reviews I found on the Garmin 441s they were a lot better than the reviews on some of the others mentioned above. oh this unit has tide tables I wish my more expensive unit had tide talbes that is a very valuable feature!
*Boatersworld.com by Saltwater Newby, Sep 29, 2010
Being new to saltwater boating I wanted a GPS/Sounder that I could count on to get me from the dock to my destination (and back).
"...Being new to saltwater boating I wanted a GPS/Sounder that I could count on to get me from the dock to my destination (and back).This one has everything I need - tide tables, sounder, GPS with tracking, fish finder, etc.The screen is easy to read and the controls are self explanatory...." *Gandermountain.com by D, May 20, 2010
BEST UNIT I"VE OWNED
"...This is one of the best units i've owned.It provides a great gps with the advantage of showing you depths all over the map and giving you waypoint, and the ability to track routes.Not only does it do all that but then it gives you the sonar, what else could you ask for...." *Gandermountain.com by C, May 17, 2010
THIS UNIT MAY BE SMALL BUT IT PACKS ALOT
"...This product is easy to use and very high quality.The screen is big and can be easily read...."
I hope this helps

 

[jere1972]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

Thanks, giericd, I was kinda leaning toward the 441s(seemed like the most for the $), but the raymarine A50d look nice too, but really was more then I can now spend, someone told me that if possible to go with a thru hull transducer, I don't have flat bottom on my boat, it is V all the way like most, my understanding that a thru-hull can give you readings at higher rates of speed????? but based on budget I will probably go with transom mount!!!! When I saw the demo running at West Marine, the bottom shows areas of red then areas of lighter color maybe in blues,yellows, is that the difference in bottom hardness, red being hard lighter color being softer????? from an offshore perspective what exactly is hard bottom,( was just watching a fishing show(Hooked on fishing) they stated look for swiss cheese bottom, what the hell is swiss cheese bottom??) I thought most offshore bottom is pretty much sand, with the occasional structure ie rocks wrecks/artif reef, unlike inshore where there is oyster bottom, mud bottom and sand bottom

 

[jere1972]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

OH and I don't know yet, but I really doubt my 20' Keywest 2000WA will be anywhere near 130' not in the tampa/sarasoto area, I would guess that depth would be around 40-60 miles, I was thinking 10 maybe 15 on a calm day was the limits of my boat!!!! but as of yet have not had her out much past Egmont Key!

 

[giericd]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

yes, no, and you are right.... in some apilications if done right a through hull transducer can be better at high speed. most decent ones start at $200 and go way up from there. one thing you have to worry about with a through hull that you have no control of is if there is air voids in the fiberglass hull itself or little air bubbles in the fiberglass resin in the hull. when they are mounted you have to have access to the bare hull in the boat try to get it to piont down on a "V" boat isn't fun and use an epoxy to glue it to the floor, if there are any air bubbles in that epoxy or in the hull you wont get a good read out at all! Big off shore trolling boats use them a lot and speed boats but for smaller boats 99% of them have transom mounted. My buddy has a 25' Trophy with twin 175hp Verados and has a transom mounted transducer. who ever told you to get a through hull was over complicating things for what your needs are and probably was the guy that was selling them and trying to make a comission. Go with transom mount. Hard bottom/Swiss cheese bottom- Think of the ocean floor as a all sand desert, not much to eat, no where to ambush prey, no where to hide=not much life around (as far as bottom fish) now you come across rocks, swiss cheese bottom, a ledge.....you just found an oasis and fish will gravitate there for food and shelter. to have a sucessful bottom fishing trip you have to find some type of structure to hold fish there. Up where you are yuo have the shipping channel which is like a ledge on wach side and has nice rocky walls. A million articles have been done on trolling the shipping channel in tampa for grouper, and they catch a lot of them up there. Swiss cheese bottom is what we have down here in Naples, it is areas of exposed flat lime stone bottom that can cover acres and is covered in little cracks, pot holes, clumps of smaller rocks and usually it will have some soft corals and sea fans growing on it, if you find that you found a redgrouper hot spot, the deeper you find it the bigger the average fish will be. My swis cheese spot is 8 miles out in 30' and the average size is 18" but I usually manage to end the day with my 2 fish over 20" limit. Hard bottom on my machine shows rock/metal/wood/cement at red, sand and mud is yellow. If i am off shore i see solid yellow bottom i know it is sand, I keep going untill i find some spot where the bottom rises up and then drops back down like a volcano and it is red=that is a rock pile if there is green/blue on the red rock that looks like little blades of grass, that is even better it is sea fans growing on it. swis cheese looks like a red line with little rises and falls and you want to see the green/blue blades of grass on it. if you drop a bait there you should het hit in no time! one thing that will help is get a florida sportsman map for your area $20 and it will show you where some "hard bottom" will be, it also has a lot of Lon/Lat to wrecks/reefs/ledges/ that can get you to fish. Most of the published numbers get hit pretty hard because everone has those numbers but once you are out there all ways keep your sonar on as you are under way, if you see some thing other than flat sand retrace that path slowly untill you find it again and mark it, drop a bait down and see what happens. The best spots you will ever fish are the ones you found on your own and they can be as small as a rock pile the size of a wheel barrel, keep them a secret. Borrow a fishing pole, dont like it but ok, borrow my boat-probably not but depends, get my list of secret spots-no way in hell even after my death!!!

 

[giericd]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

lot of big grouper caught with in a mile of Egmont key! you wont have to run far to find fish you just have to find good bottom. try trolling Stretch 20+ in the channel from the sunshine skyway bridge to the pass boat traffic permitting. do a you tube search and you will see you dont have to even go in to the gulf in your area to get nice size grouper!

 

[dingbat]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

yes, no, and you are right.... in some apilications if done right a through hull transducer can be better at high speed. most decent ones start at $200 and go way up from there. one thing you have to worry about with a through hull that you have no control of is if there is air voids in the fiberglass hull itself or little air bubbles in the fiberglass resin in the hull. when they are mounted you have to have access to the bare hull in the boat try to get it to piont down on a "V" boat isn't fun and use an epoxy to glue it to the floor, if there are any air bubbles in that epoxy or in the hull you wont get a good read out at all!

You're confusing a thru hull transducer that protruders thru the hull as opposed to a shoot thru transducer which is glued to the the inside of the hull.

A thru hull transducer provides the best performance under all conditions. Compare the "noise" on the screen from a transom mount as opposed to the "noise" on the screen from a thru hull transducer at running speed or on a rough day. There is no comparison

 

[giericd]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

Dingbat now that you mention it i do remember the one you are talking about. I stand corrected. but the one you mentioned doesn't that one require drilling a hole through your hull to mount it? I try to keep the holes in a hull to a minimum! If installed properly it wouldn't be an issue, but for the price and what jere1972 is trying to do (head out to 10-15 miles, find good bottom and fish a few times a month) he wouldn't need shoot through/through hull, a transom mounted transducer will work just fine for his use. There is no doubt like you said you can get a better read out at speed. But if a transom mounted tranduser is mounted properly you will have to go pretty fast to get "noise" I run at 40mph (GPS) and very seldom do i get noise, i seem to get a great reading, and my buddy pushes it up to 55+GPS and only looses readout for a second if there are 2'+seas. 19'-20' boat "V" hull a transom mount will fit the bill and work fine expecially since one comes with most units.

 

[PSG-1]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

Here's a question....how do you get these things to read while you're underway?

I have a Garmin fishfinder 160 on 3 different boats. On my 18 foot Sea hunt, it reads just fine while underway.

But on my 16 foot Triton, and on my 16 foot Dura Craft jetboat, if you go above idle speed, the screen starts flashing.

Does it have something to do with aluminum vs. fiberglass hulls? I've never been able to figure it out.

 

[giericd]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

tPSG-1 Wood, fiberglass, alum doesn't matter for a transom mounted transducer. the problem you are describing sounds like improper location/ angle of the transducer instalation. there are a few things that come in to play to fix your problem, I was once told years ago to allways mount the transducer on the right side of the boat that way the prop wash will be comming across and down on the top of the transducer if it on the left side the water from the prop is comming across and up on the bottom part of the transduecr that gives you the reading and it can cause serious interfearance. dont know if this is true but i have all ways mounted on the right and dont have trouble. the way i try to mount them so they dont get air bubbles going under it when under way and to make sure it is under water even at speed is simple and it works! at the back of the boat look at your drain plug, from there look to the right about a foot following the edge of the transom and bottom of the boat you should see a "step" "chine" what ever you want to call it it should be 2"-4" wide, flat, and be parallel to the ground. that is where you want to mount the transducer. the transducer is 2 halfs (top/bottom) you will see the grove running all the way around the transducer, when you mount it to the transom you want the entire transducer to be inline with the flat surface of that step and it should be mounted where that grove is about flush with the surface of that step or a tiny bit lower so the bottom 1/2 of the transducer will be about 1/2" lower than the hull on that step. that way if you ever rub bottom the bottom "V" by your drain plug will rub and your transducer wont get broke since it will be 6"-1' higher on that step and you should very rarely get static or flashing which is caused by air getting under the transducer making it lose bottom. at speed the water will be going down the bottom of your hull and running right into the transducer since is is mounted slightly lower than the hull. also make sure the transducer is angled slightly forward. once you have every thing mounted give the end of the transducer a slight push down before you tighten the bolt that way the bottom reading surface of the transducer will allways be in contact with the water and not get air unless you are hitting some serious waves at speed. also when you angle the transducer slightly forward it helps when you idel around looking for that good bottom or fish, the reading will be more under your boat than where you just passed over. I hold anchor in hand and hang it over the side, idle to my spot and as soon as i mark structure i drop anchor. anchor sets right on the mark, as wind/ tide/ waves swing the boat around while anchored you can lose refrence where that small bottom structure was, this way no matter which way the boat faces you know where the structure is, anchor line marks the spot!


photo on left is correct mounting, photo on right isn't good for getting a reading up on plane

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: FishBottom Finder reading

There are all kinds of bottoms out there.Mud,sand,weeds etc.
I bought a Lowrance LMS-525 c df It was a bit more than I wanted to spend.I figured I'was going to fish shallow 20ft to 3-400 ft deep.
Another reason I bought was it came with a Navionics chip(free) that was supposed to improve the results in my area(did nothing but make the streets easier to see).
It comes with a dual cone transducer 50/200 deg.50 for real deep 200 for under 200ft.
It a GPS and depth finder.
This unit is all I need and will be for years.
No mater what you buy READ the INSTRUCTIONS.They usually can walk you through the results.
Try U-tube for videos.J