Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

[likitvi]

I have 1980 E35ECSM that has locked up over winter storage. I Thought at first that the battery is dead as the engine did not spin and hurried to buy a new one. Only after that I did realize that the flywheel will not move a fraction of degree. I took the lower unit out, and it spins. The flywheel stays locked.

I sprayed some CRC in cylinders and have some hopes to get engine rotating again, but what sort of repais should I be looking at even if I get it freed? Nothing but more oil at first?

Meanwhile ... took the thermostat cover out and managed to break some of its bolts into the head. Hope it comes tight again still, but I am also afraid that most of the bolts will no longer secure into the old threads. I am afraid I will have to take the head to a shop, but it seems that I cannot get the cylinder head out without removing the whole block because of limited access. Or should all of the head bolts be accessible?

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)


Got it moving with a 24" arm on the flywheel nut. Removed cylinder head and it looked like this. The worse sides are visible in the pictures.
What would you judge, good to go with new gaskets and bolts if a compression test shows good readings?
I will check the compression and then order new gaskets, bolts and a thermostat. Time to play the broken bolts out of the head while waiting for parts.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

DOn't use "EZ outs" on those stuck bolts......
I hope there are no broken rings or twisted crank.JBJ

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

I hope so. It had just stuck during winter storage, was "ok" before that and I didn't have to apply too much torque to get them moving. The two broken bolts are just visible in the pic where the head is still in place. I think there's enough visible to work with a file, crc and pliers - Had to try EZ's with a car befofe, no more without a drill press for me. I think I will have to take the head to a shop while waiting for parts.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Looks like it had some water in the cylinders, causing the rust up. Obviously you need to find out where the water came from and stop it. Are the cylinder walls pitted, or do they clean up well?

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Yes, some evident surface rust there, feels very smooth all over. The engine lost gears from its original lower unit and it sat most of the previous summer while I finally found a fitting lower unit and performed a cowboy fix with an 99% bolt-on. During the final test of a new impeller on autumn I could not get the engine to run properly (bad gas?) and tested the impeller by rotating with starter. I think that could have caused this ... At least I'll do the next winterizing differently and spray some corrosion prevention inside the cylinders finally.

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Oh boy, applied liberally CRC for lubrication, bolted the head back, and screwed a compression meter in today. I felt abysmal as it read only 30psi after turning the flywheel a few rounds and tightening the meter connections. Then I decided to give it a crank with starter. After a few turns it showed 60psi on upper. Then tried the lower cylinder, tightened the connector with pliers and got 105psi by cranking the engine for 2 seconds. The engine spins very nicely without any worrying sounds. At this point there were also some signs of warming up so I did not test the upper cylinder again.
The situation is very promising as I think I just did execute the test properly first, head gasket was old and worn after tearing the head off and I did not tighten the bolts that much. New gaskets, bolts, and I expect it to be fine after a proper reassembly. Oh well, two broken bolts have to be removed somehow before that.

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Alright, new bolts, gaskets and a thermostat now installed and the head fixed at a repair shop. Compression improved a little on the upper cylinder, but still worse than the lower. Engine cranks but refuses to start, or even "promise". Most often the starter disengages when you'd expect the engine to fire up It seems to get fuel - Which is though about 50:50 old, over-winter stuff and fresh. New plugs, key switch tests ok as charge and sensor resistance test and tests for short. Glow plug tester shows only very faint glimmer when cranking, ingition coil primary windings were hard to measure at all, but got readings like 0,9 and 1,4 ohm. The other measured 279 ohm once for secondary winding and second 2,4kohm - Both once, couldn't measure any connectivity at all a second time?

I'll try to measure them again after inventing something to help with getting a connection from the spark plug lead. Any advice or should I just get 2 new ignition coils?

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Exactly what is your compression on each cylinder now? The highest the tester goes to no matter how long it has to spin (5 seconds should be plenty).
Next, you need a $6 spark tester that has an adjustable air gap. The spark on each wire should jump at LEAST a 1/4" gap with a hot blue spark.
Even if just one cylinder compression is good and you have good spark and fuel it would probably run. It's highly unlikely that 2 coils would go bad at the same time, so if both plugs were getting weak spark I'd suspect the powerpack. However, I would NOT buy a powerpack for it until I had it tested AND both cylinders had good compression.

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

65-70 only for the worse and 95-100 for the other. I think it should warrant at least some "action" with good fuel and ignition? Though I could not spot any obvious reason for lower compression, piston seemed to sit tight, cylinder walls did not seem that bad, head was ok, and head gasket sits well. I just hoped that it would improve enough after some turning over as I have no plans to tear this hulk actually open.
Previously the engine has had intermittent problems, ran ok but a few times just refused to refused to start or "promise" until it just started again after some time like nothing had happened. That is a strong indication of a electrical problem somewhere atleast for me. :/ I am not that keen to replace parts at random either, but the coil readings seemed to way out of specified resistances. Maybe I should try to somehow check the fuel supply and see what I could do with its carburetor

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

No use going any further until you've verified that for sure you have bad compression. It sounds bad, but your gauge also sounds suspect. You should be getting about 125 psi on that motor in each cylinder. I would borrow a gauge from autozone and recheck compression. If you're still getting a big difference in compression like you're describingj even after straightening the head and new head gasket, then there's no other option besides a teardown. THere's also no reason to tear into the carb if spark is not good. I always work on getting good spark, then rebuild the carb. Verify bad compression. If bad, tear it down and find out why and fix it. Then get good spark and rebuild the carb.
One last thing.... Since your cylinders looked good, take off the bypass covers (2 small covers on the starboard side of the engine) and poke on the rings with a small screwdriver to see if they're springy. They may be seized and causing the bad compression.

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

The gauge is a cheap DIY-store one, might be showing way off but it should atleast show about the same for both cylinders. This is also the first time I am trying to do a compression test. Thanks, I'll check the by-pass and perform the test twice or three times again and sell it in parts if the readings are still different. I am already close to spending more on repairing this than what the outboard would be worth in running condition.

I used exactly this kind of a spark tester: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw9Qa6NYw0Q&feature=related ... forgot to check if it is adjustable, I'll recheck that also.

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Tried again today and the engine coughed mutedly after some cranking. Some more cranking and it idled shortly. And very roughly. Some more and it ran nicely some time longer. After that I got compression measured into 95psi #1 and 105-110psi #2. After some fidling with fuel supply, rich/lean adjustment, and just trying more it now idles nicely and at lower rpms than first. Still, it will eventually die at low idle but this would do well for me and for now.

But still, the engine is multi-problematic.

- First, my el-cheapo after market fuel hose is gone, Surface of the primer became fuely while pumping and the hose could not hold fluid pressure but seemed to pull air. Engine did not seem to stay on without pumping the primer. Easy to remedy.
- Lower unit leaked gear oil, oir drain screw not properly tightened. Seemed to become fixed.
- 2 of the lower unit bolts have lost threads and the other has been already bored to the next size. :/ Some exhaust seemed to exit from the seam. Any ideas could the threads be repaired somehow?

And the worst ... I am sure that I saw a steady indicator stream during the first trials. Then it exhausted and only some spat water out of the "nostrils". I just wonder have botchered installing the water pump kit or the thermostat. I have ensured that the pump spat water out when rotating the drive shaft and ensured that it has provided a steady indicator stream. I tried to install the thermostat as in:
http://epc.brp.com/cgi-bin/ImgServ....51\14.tif&ilSC=35&ilIV=0&ilBR=0&ilIF=P&ilRE=8

1. The thermostat with the longer end into the cylinder head
2. Seal
3. Retainer
4. Spring

I assume the indicator stream should be constant or is it cut out by the thermostat? I just wonder did I after all botcher the water pump installation or has it broken somehow?

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Pulled the indicator line off its elbow today and cleaned it again through-out with a heavy mono fishing line. Started on the first try, and remains running as long as I remember to pump the primer every now then. Indicator stream remains now steady. Will do for me for now, but eventually I will have to repair the threads for the lower unit bolts and consider rebuilding the block if compression remains low or finding an other outboard. On this video the exhaust escaping from the seam is clearly visible.
http://koti.kapsi.fi/~liki/Vator14/28062012012.mp4
EDIT: Pay attention to the elaborate run of the remote control cables. ;> This outboard was installed on the boat as an used by P.O.

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Saga continues. Took her for a spin, motor shut off 200m from the dock and refused to start, seemed that it was not getting fuel.
Discovered that fuel pump internals were shot, the little leaf valves had rusted and broken off. Fuel flow was blocked and fuel just burst out after disconnecting the hose from engine.
Dismounted starter and carburetor, bowl was full and perfectly clean, and float perfect and not stuck. Fuel lines were also bad, especially between pump and carb, and very likely leaking air. I am now quite close to taking the block out in any case ...

Does anybody sell the internals only for the fuel pump? Manual says it is not rebuildale and parts are not listed but it would seem very easy to service.

It is getting pretty close that I will sell this engine as parts.

 

[likitvi]

Re: Fixes required after a seized up power head (or drive shaft?)

Now everything is, or seems to be, finally in proper running order and the engine runs fine and seems reliable.
http://koti.kapsi.fi/~liki/Vator14/12080002.mp4

Here are a few good points to avoid some of the problems I experienced while assembling everything:
a) When inserting carburetor, it is almost impossible to not form a kink in the fuel line between pump and carburetor, blocking fuel supply.
b) With a Sierra fuel pump you must pay attention when replacing the fuel supply filter housing. If the connector is over one the screws in the fuel pump, the gasket will not be tight.
c) O-ring gasket in the sierra fuel pump will not tolerate many reinstallations. It will become unusable after a few rounds.

Still a thread job required for lower unit mounting bolts.