Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. w/pics

Mark_VTfisherman

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

......I will get 4 ss bolts to bolt teh control panel to teh gunnell if that's what its called. (top rail thing)......

Ya- pronounced 'gunnel' but spelled gunwale. Comes from the old seaport and carpenter's term, "waler" as in the thing that gets beat up- waled on. The top rail or "hull decks" of the boat side we now call the gunwale, but historically it was also the raceway area where cannons were rolled out- hence "gun wale."

Funny thing: I read a lot when I was a kid and also was schooled for a number of years in an "individual" learning environment- most of the lessons were read silently and not out load in front of a teacher or classmates. Great education for the motivated student but it had it's flaws! :confused: I was in my late twenties when I learned (and embarrassed to learn it!) that gunwale was pronounced gunnel and not gun-whale :eek:

It's amazing what a trip to Maine Maritime Museum can teach you LOL

That sucks having to store your boat. I have 30 acres.....As long as i don't look like trailer trash ill store peoples stuff and get some free fishing and favors......cant wait to get the motor and get on the water!!

I rent - would like my own place but a few family crises, and I never got over the savings hump to be able to buy. Yet :) No equity, but right now living here is well under 1/2 the cost of a modest mortgage and taxes. So I have to rely on the graces of others. My yard is landlocked- can't get the boat out back, and out front is all parking area and a place to plow the snow- nowhere to overwinter my boat here!

However it hasn't gotten above 25 degrees for a few days - I am going to try to get it out this AM and tow it home before mud season fully sets in. If I wait any longer, I won't be able to drive across the grass until at least May- last year it was almost June before it dried out. Right now still a lot of snow up there and the ground is frozen solid.

I do owe my friend some sill repair on his house and some rot repair around the leaking door underneath the roof which caused the damage. Fair trade...:) He's done me a lot of favors over the years. Have a few cars up there too.

I can't wait to fish either. We don't have anything like the Great Lakes or out west, but there are steelhead runs in Vermont which I have never tried before- I am going to next month, however. Also might have a chance to fish steelhead in upstate NY with some friends- I need a NY fishing license anyway :)
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Ya i have to go get the boat registered and get my fishing license. I am planing on getting the motor Friday or Saturday and going to the DMV for the registration.
Motor comes with a 90 day warranty, pretty dam good for a 15+ year old motor.
Matt
 

oops!

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

ok...matt....i found you.....now.....you had a poly epoxy question for me?

and by the way.....aceitone os your best freind.....it is used in every aspect of restoration or boar building......NEVER EVER glass or paint or add anything to any surface with out cleaning the surface with aceitone first.

aceitonte is really expencive....so buy it in the big 5 gallon jugs for around 55 bux cdn.....if you buy it in smaller quantities....it will cost you a fortune
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

What do you think about using polyester? Its so much cheaper then epoxy. Do you think tabing onto the deck with 3 layers of polyester will be strong enough?
I could cut the deck back 6" then use the same piece back when i am done then i can tab to the actual hull.
Or can i still tab to the deck with polyester? do i need to use acetone or anything to clean the polyester? as well as rough it up for every layer?

Does epoxy require less work, you said you need to clean it with soapy water with a brush before laying another layer?
If epoxy is less work it seems it is worth it but i don't mind more work for less money.
Matt
 

oops!

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

uh....

ok...here we go....i dont want to get lynched here....

so to make a long story short....poly is just fine

for the standard older boat..(pre 1992) there is only a few reasons...(very few) that i would suggest using epoxy. and what you are doing is not one of them.

on my hull extension there is not one bit of epoxy....and i dare to say it is the strongest boat around my area......combining the two is opening your self up to a world of hurt.
 

oops!

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Do you think tabing onto the deck with 3 layers of polyester will be strong enough?

yes it will be strong enough

do i need to use acetone or anything to clean the polyester? as well as rough it up for every layer?

if you are adding a layer of glass to a reciently done layer....(within the past 24-48 hrs) of non waxed polyester resin.....just wipe with aceitone....

if the substraight is older than 48 hours....you need to ruff and scuff the area .....then sweep and vaccume AND wipe with aceitone.

make sure you are using unwaxed resin.......the bondo carp that you buy from the local big box stores is a waxed resin......go to a supplier and get a 5 gallon pail of unwaxed laminating resin.......approx 90 bux us or less.
a quart of mekp....

read the directions for mixing.....between 1.5 and 2.5 mekp to resin...mix very well.

the hull extension thread has all this info....i would highly suggest to read it....especially the glassing parts at the beginning...(its in the index on the first page).......the information there is the best on this site as far as "how to"........some of the comments left are by the top glass pros in north america.....follow there instructions and your boat will be strong enough to pull 10 skiers and a tube off your transom!.

i didnt have time right now to read this whole thread matt....but ill read it tonight after the game......and help you where i can bud.......but our guys here are really good, and i suspect they havent steered you wrong!

cheers
oops
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

ok works for me and ill save a lot of $$
I am planing on doing the transom mid season when the A holes are killing the river. I plan on finishing it in a week. But then i have to paint it, ill never be able to color match it so it will look pretty stupid for a while.
Matt ( i will feel so much better having a solid boat.)
 

oops!

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

its the 1708.....bi ax.....17 ozs of cloth and 8 oz of matt combined.....the mat allways goes down first.

you cannot tab your transom into the deck.....you MUST tab it into the hull and stringers......the other way is just a patch and will deteriorate with the deck in 5 years......it will also not be strong.....if the lower transom is weak....your whole job will be in vain!
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

My deck and stringers are solid fiberglass that's why I thought i could tab to the deck. I think i only need 1 gall of resin?
Biaxial mat 1708.????.. 1 gallon wets out 4 square yards
My little transom is 20" by like 48" Maybe 2 gallons?
I need to keep it cheep somewhat less then seacast or ill just do that...
50-70 for plywood 35 for resin 40 for 1708 50 for unknown stuff or shipping.
i am hoping around 150-200 also what do u use for peanut butter? bubbles and chop strand. also need a sander.
Matt
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Anyone have a good idea on how to build ski racks. or something similar to shelving at least like 8ft on the sides. How would i attach it to the side hull.
What would i build it with?
I'm thinking plywood nailed together with a brad nailer in a long box design glued to hull with construction adhesive. (i see Marks are aluminum, i could bend some up hmm...)
Matt
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

My deck and stringers are solid fiberglass that's why I thought i could tab to the deck.......also need a sander

Sander: I like the 5" round random orbit by Porter Cable, but I own a 5" Makita which I am very happy with: saved about $20+ with Makita. You would do well with either one.

I use an old Makita square-pad standard palm sander for scuffing stuff for paint or flattening between coats. I have a psa plate on it. Both types are indispensable to me. The random orbit can remove a lot of material fast and leave raw wood without swirly marks; the standard "palm sander" gets used when flattening a finish is all I need, or rounding (easing) corners, but not bulk removal.

The deck on your MFG is fiberglass over fiberglass stringers. If you can avoid cutting the floor you will preserve a really great structural boon the Niagara design has. I left a horizontal strip about 2" tall at the bottom of the inner transom to glass over, but I think in your case you will need to create a new transom/floor meeting area. The inner transom might extend to the hull oem- can't remember on mine and never took pics. mark42???

ooops! wasn't trying to mislead you: most other boats do not have the benefit of a 'glass floor and stringers. My transom wood stops at about the floor level- the wood will never soak in the little water that might ever get in the underhull. Both drain plugs are under the transom wood, and the wood runs from side to side tight to the hull sides (which was a trick!).
 

Landscaping Wiz 808

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

I have the ski racks / storage compartments off my MFG right now. I could take some detailed photos and measurements if you're interested. My boats a couple of feet longer than yours, but you could probably just shorten the racks a little.

Also, be sure to post some pictures of that Mariner 40 when you pick her up.:D:D

BOB
 

Mark42

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

......you cannot tab your transom into the deck.....you MUST tab it into the hull and stringers......the other way is just a patch and will deteriorate with the deck in 5 years......it will also not be strong.....if the lower transom is weak....your whole job will be in vain!

The MFG Niagara line had a corrugated fiberglass stringer system. It does not go all the way back to the transom. When you look into the lower bilge drain hole, (with a flashlight) you can see the open area up against the transom. This may or may not have changed over the model years.

Post some pics of the transom with all the wood and splash well removed, and we can make some recommendations on how and were to tab it in. I do believe the floor is a structural part of the hull back by the transom.

BTW, the steering cable looks like it falls in exactly the right place. And if you want to hide some blemishes in the side console, just shoot it with a can or two of Rustolium flat or satin white. It will be hard to see any mistakes with that stuff.
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Ya i will get some pics of the motor when i get it, probably Saturday. It looks good but i will eventually repaint and new decal it i'm sure.

When i looked in the drain holes with a flashlight i saw a bunch of leaves under the deck so that's why i thought of cutting back the floor and cleaning it out. But i will fix all the holes in the floor. The center of the floor running the length of the boat is cracked a bit. If you put you weight on it goes in a little but not to bad. I plan on fixing that.

What size bolts do i need to install the engine with? And should i coat them with anything so the transom doesn't get any wetter.
Matt
 

Mark42

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

.....
What size bolts do i need to install the engine with? And should i coat them with anything so the transom doesn't get any wetter.
Matt

Us as large a bolt as will fit in the motor mounting plate. Probably 5/8 or so. Also use stainless steel. My Niagara has stainless bolts, nuts and washers from the Depot, and they are holding up great even though I use it in salt water.

Some people over drill the hole a little bit, then fill with epoxy paste or poly paste, whatever your using, and then re-drill the right size hole through it. That way even if the sealer used on the bolts leaks, water can not get into the wood of the transom.

Use a good sealer like 3m 4200 or boatlife. DO NOT USE 3M 5200!!! It will not come apart without damaging the transom. Just slather the sealer inside the transom hole, all over the bolt, both sides of the washers, etc and drive bolt through.
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

......3M 5200!!! It will not come apart without damaging the transom.....

Awe, gee. I love the stuff! But it has essentially welded some stuff together which I probably should have used a little less aggressive sealant. 5200 can be pretty bulletproof as an adhesive. I used it on my watertight lockers. They are still watertight years later:)

....That way even if the sealer used on the bolts leaks, water can not get into the wood of the transom.

I never thought of that! and so much less messy than 5200. Thanks!
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Ok i will be picking up some 4200 and 5200. I am getting teh motor saturday :D
I am going to build some ski racks tummarow night i think.
Matt
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

I started making a ski rack and it took 3 tries to get it to fit perfectly. Then i glued nailed and screwed the side to the ski rack. I also failed to think about how i was going to screw the side in with the side piece in? Hmm
Matt (it was so nice out today i set up shop outside)

CIMG0697-1.jpg

CIMG0698.jpg

CIMG0699.jpg


Then i took some angle and cut it to 1" lengths. It thick so i figure 1" will be plenty strong.

CIMG0700.jpg

CIMG0702.jpg

A little Grinding
CIMG0703.jpg
 

matt9923

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Idk if i can screw it in on an angle or drill holes threw the wood to get the driver in? I'm not taking it apart now... I am going to stain/seal it somehow. What do you recommend i have some old deck stain i will probably use.
CIMG0701.jpg
 

Landscaping Wiz 808

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Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

Re: Fixing up my 14ft MFG Niagara. transom rebuild w/pics

I would just paint it the same color as the interior of the boat. Make sure to put a few coats on so that MDF doesn't rot. You can probably use the holes used to attach the rub-rail to attach those too.

You're picking up the motor this weekend, right?
I'm looking forward to seeing your boat w/ the motor & those racks attached.:D

BOB
 
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