Floor repair sugestions

jigngrub

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Do a google search for 635 thin epoxy resin for comparative pricing.

If you plan to take care of your boat and keep it covered when not in use you can just coat the topside and the 4 edges with 4 coats and leave the bottom side bare to breathe. If you think your boat might get filled with water on occasion you may want to coat the top, bottom, and edges.
 

ondarvr

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The upgrade could be aluminum floors covered with marine vinyl, G3 boats offers this option.

... and the marine vinyl must not be all that bad if they offer it in those brand new high dollar boats that you linked to.

I've seen this as an option before, never could figure out why it would be a desirable feature. And aluminum G3's aren't high end, had one at my place for years, it had the vinyl covered plywood, and it didn't age all that well.

Also, they these don't come stock with a motor or anything else at the base price either.

If you wish to use vinyl go for it, many people do, like I said before, it's an easy low cost way that will up hold OK for awhile.
 
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pikefisherman

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Thanks tons for the input ,for me its either the vinyl, or the brush on coating, I'm concerned the coating will smell when the sun is on it or get soft. The other plywood was on this boat for twenty years.
 

pikefisherman

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I found the epoxy, 71.00 dollars Do I really need it? I have almost 250.00 dollars in this project already.
I know I was the one that wanted a boat :grumpy:I all ready heard that one, but I will spend the extra if I really need it.
 

ondarvr

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The coating won't smell, some are supposed to be soft, the soft ones will stay soft, the hard ones will stay hard.

depending on how much you want to spend, and most people don't want to spend much, there are some easy low cost ways that work fairy well.

Lowest cost = buy some adequate plywood at a local big box store, cut it to shape using the old plywood as a pattern. Use porch paint with a little non skid additive and you will be done in a day. Don't screw the floor in place, it won't go anywhere, just make sure it doesn't flop around when you walk on it. This will last for many years, and anytime it starts to look bad you just touch it up with paint. You will also be able to remove it easily anytime you want, like over the winter, this keeps it dry and rot free, it will last for decades this way. Even if left in the boat it will last close to ten years. maybe $100.00 and a days worth of time.

As you go up in cost, you can coat the wood with epoxy before using non skid. adds another few days and $100.00 or slightly more.

The next step is glassing over the plywood while still using epoxy, this makes it even tougher and more resistant to wear, but can still be repainted. Adds a couple hundred more.

Covering it with vinyl will take the cost up some, and you should use better plywood, or at least coat it with epoxy. Easier and lower in cost than glassing with epoxy, but can be used together for better results.

When using wood and better methods, it's important to keep all water away from the wood, anytime water gets in it can't get out, one screw hole can defeat all your best plans and start the rotting process.

Then comes other types of non rotting products (not wood) they tend to cost much more, so far fewer people use them. Long term they cost less, but in reality most people don't keep their small boats that long, so it may not pay off.
 
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ondarvr

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So that some don't think I'm running a $60,000 aluminum jet boat, mine is a 1981 model that I picked up in 2001 for about $800.00 or so and then completely gutted and rebuilt it. Changed it from an inboard jet to an outboard jet, took out the center console and changed it to a tiller. Like I said, this one has a honeycomb floor covered with glass, if I did it again I'd go with diamond plate and Velcro, I've done it and so have friends, there's even at least one manufacturer doing it this way. The honeycomb and glass floor works very well, but it might be a little heavier than aluminum and it can't be removed. Under the floor is pour foam, and I wouldn't do it that way again either, foam and aluminum don't play well together sometimes, the aluminum frequently corrodes under foam and there's no way to tell unless you rip the whole thing apart. I used an aluminum DP truck toolbox as a base to mount the front seats on, it holds a great deal of stuff and is totally dry. It also holds the battery. The bow area is completely DP AL and so are the gunnels all the way around the boat.

I put a Minn Kota 80 lb Terrova i-pilot on it too.

I don't spend a great deal of money on boats because I would really like to retire at some point.......and still be able to eat and live indoors.
 

dozerII

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I found the epoxy, 71.00 dollars Do I really need it? I have almost 250.00 dollars in this project already.
I know I was the one that wanted a boat :grumpy:I all ready heard that one, but I will spend the extra if I really need it.


To answer your question, you don't have to use epoxy, Helmsman spar varnish another good choice for sealing up your wood prior to installing. Two to three coats on the flats and hit the edges double that. Whenever you put a fastener in your flooring run the screw in half way then remove it put a little 3M 4200 in the hole with the fine tip then put your screw in tight, sealed and it acts like loctite to keep them tight.
 
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ondarvr

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Over the last while spar varnish has been recommended here as a substitute for epoxy, I'm not sure where the idea came from that spar varnish is anywhere close to as durable and water proof as epoxy, short term it can be OK, long term it's not even close. As a coating under vinyl it won't do much to help.
 

dozerII

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Over the last while spar varnish has been recommended here as a substitute for epoxy, I'm not sure where the idea came from that spar varnish is anywhere close to as durable and water proof as epoxy, short term it can be OK, long term it's not even close. As a coating under vinyl it won't do much to help.

I guess everyone is entitled to and has an opinion, Spar varnish has and will continue to work well for me.
 

Woodonglass

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I don't think it's ever been touted as a substitute but rather as a lower cost alternative to help seal the wood to help protect it from water intrusion much like YOU have stated in previous posts i.e. #25 "Porch Paint" etc. Anything is better than nothing. With plywood it's the edges that are the most important. The Flats only have about 1/16" of wood to absorb water before it hits a barrier of waterproof resin and then water runs to the edges where it does the damage. If you drill holes and don't properly seal them then water can reach the inner layers as well and do damage.
 

ondarvr

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Yes, in that application spar varnish would be OK in the same way porch paint would be. The surface isn't covered, it's allowed to breath and dry out, plus you aren't expecting the porch paint to really be a waterproof barrier, only some sort of limited short term barrier to slow the migration of water a little. Once you cover the surface with another waterproof barrier (vinyl), or a water retaining product like carpet, the porch paint becomes irrelevant because it will now be overwhelmed by continuous exposure to water, and even worse, water vapor. The example of porch paint was to show he could do it at a very low cost and still have a long lasting floor, especially if it was removed from the boat and stored in a dry place

The environment under carpet and vinyl isn't that different even though one is waterproof and the other one acts like a sponge. The carpet allows water to reach the plywood in the first instant it's in use, there is no barrier, and once it gets wet it takes a long time to dry. Vinyl protects the wood very well until water is trapped under the floor for a period of time, as the water vapor rises it penetrates the wood and reaches the vinyl and stops, then condenses. It will also find it's way in through any penetration in the vinyl, be it a screw hole, cut, tear, defect, etc. Once there's water between the vinyl and wood the wood will stay wet 100% of the time, that's why vinyl covered wood becomes so heavy, the wood just gets saturated over time.

Paint and spar varnish have a good (fair) degree of water resistance, but they are thin and not really that durable, so for intermittent water exposure they work well, subject them continuous immersion, as in under vinyl or carpet, and they fail quickly. They also need to be redone frequently to maintain the limited amount of water resistance they do have. So if something is painted with either one and then buried below deck where it can't be refreshed with a new coat periodically it becomes ineffective and is of little help in preserving the integrity of the wood.

Epoxy is a very tough and highly water resistant product, it far exceeds the capabilities of just about any other easily accessible coating there is, and by using it the life expectancy of the wood can be extended a great deal.

In my way of thinking there are two ways to approach this type of build, use products that will last a very long time and stand up to the water and abuse for decades (these tend to be very expensive), or use lesser products and make it very easy to remove and replace them (these can be very low in cost and easy to work with). Frequently when using high end costly products there are some very important steps that need to be done exactly right or the entire build can be compromised, like using very good wood, covering it with epoxy and glass, then not sealing a screw hole by mistake. All that time and money spent was compromised by one small point of water intrusion. It may now rot in that area at the same rate it would if there were no protective measures taken at all.



In my boat I wouldn't do the floor in same way again. I would use a different foam, or the same foam in a different way, and then DP AL using Velcro to hold it in place. Right now I can't remove it without a total rebuild, so if something goes wrong it means a great deal of work and money is required to fix it, or even just inspect it. With AL and Velcro I can pull the floor up and inspect it in just a few minutes and be on my way, If it does need some attention it's easy to get to and very low in cost. I will say that it's held up very well for 14 years and is very strong, much stronger than it would be with AL with Velcro, but I don't look forward to the day I need to work on it.
 
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ondarvr

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I guess everyone is entitled to and has an opinion, Spar varnish has and will continue to work well for me.

I don't mean to come across harsh on this, but......that isn't something an opinion can make right, or change the facts, there is no comparison between the two when it comes to water resistance and durability.
 

ondarvr

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This entire subject can be related to the old Bayliner construction methods and quality control reputation.

Bayliners were rather well designed and good looking boats, the problem was attention to detail in construction. But even with poor attention to detail they lasted 10 plus years without issues, some even much longer, so for that period of time there was really nothing wrong, it worked as planned and designed, no worries. It was later when people started pulling them apart for what was expected to be a simple repair that all the wet and rotting wood was found, this normally required a complete rebuild or scrapping the boat.

Some other more highly rated brands tended to last much longer, but over time they succumbed to the elements in the same way, rotten wood, it just took a little longer. Now when someone comes to this site with a soft spot in the floor of a 25 year old boat (some even much newer) it doesn't matter what brand it is, the response is the same, "it's time for a total gut and rebuild", And those saying it are right 99.999% of the time.

This sort of shows that just about anything will last 10 years or so, and much longer if cared for, painted, non painted, spar varnish, fiber glassed, or just bare wood. So saying something works well because it's held up for 5 to 10 years without apparent problems is still within the timeframe of life expectancy even if it was done poorly and in the wrong way. Even the repairs done here that used less than ideal products typical were done with much better attention to detail, so the life expectancy should be longer.


In the 10 years I've been on this site my opinions have changed a bit on what to do in new construction and in rebuilds, there just isn't anyplace else that has the same number of people doing the same type of repairs for this length of time. You can't ignore all these unofficial case studies.
 
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pikefisherman

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I have a chance to get a sheet of 3/16 thick aluminum from work, I think I will use this and paint it with a non skid surface.
 

ondarvr

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It needs to be supported a little more than plywood, but sometimes we are able to just use nuts and bolts (I don't like screws) and attach some angle or tubing to the existing structure. Look it over well before buying the aluminum.

A good friend just put an aluminum floor in his boat, he had planned to put a nonskid coating on it, but started using it before he had time to do it. The bare smooth aluminum wasn't nearly as slippery as he thought it was going to be, so he hasn't made it a priority.
 

pikefisherman

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This boat has supports across the boat I know their is a name for them:confused: but they are about 2 feet apart.
This plate they use to support the floor of trailers ,we drive fork trucks accost them with a ton of weight on the forks,I cant see why this would not be better than a wood and vinyl floor.
 
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