Floor replacement question

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

Here are two pictures of the boat on the trailer:



The trailer has rollers that the boat sits on.

Should I add some extra supports for removal of the stringers?

Steve

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Floor replacement question

Yep, building a boat on a Roller Trailer is NOT a good idea, IMHO. You need to run some padded 2x4 or 6's some how Or build a dedicated cradle to put her on.

 

[rickryder]

Re: Floor replacement question

Yes you will need some type of support....rollers will cause deflections in the hull. Like Wood said some 2x6 running down both sides of the boat with 2x4 legs to a 2x4 plate along the ground.....like building a wall on both sides of the boat.

 

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

The boat is going to have to stay on the trailer as I want to be able to push it out of the barn to do the work on nice days, but be able to wheel it into the barn on rainy days for work. The support structure would be tied into the trailer frame, which is pretty stout.

I have come up with two ideas:

1) Use 2x6s placed along the hull, running down the sides. These would be a bunch of short sections (maybe 3' long) because of the hull curvature. They would be supported and anchored to the trailer frame. One way would be to unbolt one roller section at a time and replace it with a 2x6 assembly.

2) Use 3/4" plywood on edge, going from port to starboard, cut out to the exact hull cross-section. I could have about 3 or 4 of these spread out over the length of the boat.


What do you guys think? Which way is easier? More importantly, which way is better?

Thanks
Steve

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Floor replacement question

Well... I built this Mobile Cradle for mine for aroun $60 bucks and with a little modification it would work well for yours. It'll easily support #600 lbs.

 

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

I think I have figured out what I am going to do to support the hull. If you look at the boat/ trailer pictures I posted a few days ago, the support arm for the rollers has a center section with a large flat area. I will take a 2x8 and brace it against the flat area with shims until the rollers are not touching the hull. At this point, the 2x8 will be laying flat against the hull. My boat hull is pretty straight for about 6-7' forward from the transom. Then I will use another 2x8 on the front roller support where the hull angle changes. If I need to, I will add extra supports to the trailer frame to hold the 2x8s snugly in place everywhere. This will result in supporting the hull almost directly below the stringers that I am replacing.


Will the bare flat 2x8 be ok against the hull, or should I put carpet scraps on the wood to protect the hull from scratches?

My US Composites order (177 pounds of it!) is scheduled to arrive on Friday, I can hardly wait. This means I can work on it over the holiday weekend.

Steve

 

[rickryder]

Re: Floor replacement question

Sounds like a plan I would put some scrap carpet on it to protect the hull. You still have the cap on the boat correct? That will help the hull from spreading also.

 

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

Yes, the cap is still on my boat.

I'll find some carpet pieces to use on the wood.


One more question:

I am still rounding up all the stuff I need for the boat rebuild. I read on one of the threads that someone had trouble keeping the 1708 against the stringer when they wrapped the top. Their solution was to staple the 1708 to the sides of the stringer before glassing using monel staples. Should I get monel staples for my narrow-crown air stapler? I don't think monel staples are stocked locally, so I may have to order them.

Thanks
Steve

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Floor replacement question

Yes, the cap is still on my boat.

I'll find some carpet pieces to use on the wood.


One more question:

I am still rounding up all the stuff I need for the boat rebuild. I read on one of the threads that someone had trouble keeping the 1708 against the stringer when they wrapped the top. Their solution was to staple the 1708 to the sides of the stringer before glassing using monel staples. Should I get monel staples for my narrow-crown air stapler? I don't think monel staples are stocked locally, so I may have to order them.

Thanks
Steve

When you wrap the 1708 it will make your stringers higher and can affect the deck height. I generally don't wrap around the top, but glass right up to it and then use epoxy to seal the top of the stringer before laying the deck down.

Also unless you round off both sides the glass will make a "bubble" on top of the stringer, and the down side to rounding it is you loose much of the surface for the deck to lay on... I'm sure I'm gonna catch some slack here, but that's my method.

CW

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Floor replacement question

One more thing, now this was on stringers that support a deck, open stringers I do round over the entire top and wrap the cloth. Places like in the bilge area.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Floor replacement question

Check the 1st link in my signature. Has drawing and info on how to do your stringers, deck and transom. Basically RR is right but I TEAR the CSM and wrap the top of the stringers with it to seal em. It works good and will lay down over the top without bubbles. No 1708 needed.

 

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

I guess I need more clarification on the stringer wrapping issue.

I thought that by wrapping the stringer completely with 1708, you created a "box beam" of fiberglass that was very strong, with the wood acting as a mold to form the glass (the wood also acting in compression at times). Now it looks like the cap on the stringer is just to keep water out of the stringer and the only important structural joint is the stringer tabbing to the hull on both sides.

Can someone clarify this for me?

Thanks
Steve

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Floor replacement question

I guess I need more clarification on the stringer wrapping issue.

I thought that by wrapping the stringer completely with 1708, you created a "box beam" of fiberglass that was very strong, with the wood acting as a mold to form the glass (the wood also acting in compression at times). Now it looks like the cap on the stringer is just to keep water out of the stringer and the only important structural joint is the stringer tabbing to the hull on both sides.

Can someone clarify this for me?

Thanks
Steve

Wraping 1708 all the around the stringer would certainly create a "beam effect", but this isnt' the way it's done. I'm picturing (correct me if I'm wrong) that you have the stringers laying on saw horses and are literally wraping the 1708 around them and after the cure placing them in the hull and tabbing in???

This seems to me (never done it that way) like it would make it very difficult to ever get a decent fit of the stringer.

Woody had good drawings showing the proper lay up schedule, but it's done after the stringers are laid in the hull. Now personally I don't wrap around the top of the stringer where the deck will attach, simple because it interfers with the decking. I glass the stringers in with two layers of 1708 and two layer of CSM (alternating layers).

I cut strips of 1708 (buying the 12" tape saves cutting time) and strips of CSM, large enough to cover the entire side of the stringer and overlap the hull by 4" or so... Now to install them, wet out the wood good and let in tack, then start the layup, if you're going to do it all at one time, you'll have to work fast depending on how long the stringers are. If you have someone to help it makes it much nicer. I laminate the glass right up to the top of the stringers, roll it out really good and let her cure out. This will have it all sealed up from the deck to the top of the stringer with the top exposed.

Now when you're ready to install the deck there are options there too. I've used strip of CSM and resin the width of the wood to lay the deck in, I've also used epoxy to coat the tops of the stringers and that bonds and seals good. You could mix up some peanut butter for this part also....so you have options.

CW

 

[rickryder]

Re: Floor replacement question

Just to clarify when I say wrap I don't mean completely around....guess I should say layers of 1708. Sorry for any confusion guys.

 

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

It looks like my question was not worded well.

I am not talking about wrapping the stringer before putting it in the boat. The stringer would be tabbed on both sides to the hull with 1708. Then a cap of fiberglass would be applied to the top and partly down the sides to completely enclose the stringer. My question is whether this cap should be done with 1708 or CSM. I have seen postings where it was done either way. I realize it would be much easier to use CSM as it would conform to the edges better and not distort the top edge for deck placement. However, if using 1708 provided any significant strength enhancements to the stringer, then I would use the 1708.

Sorry my original question wasn't clear.

Also, am I right that the 1708 stringer to hull tabbing should be 2 layers?

Since the 1708 has an attached CSM layer, I also don't need to add layers of CSM, right?

Thanks again. The knowledge I have gained here would have been hard to find anywhere else and I would have made a lot of expensive mistakes.

Steve

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Floor replacement question

1708 will give you consistency and strength. . . CSM would be ok as it is often used for that very purpose.

The trick will be to get the cloth to wrap tightly over the top of the stringer as it has to make 2 right angle turns in close proximity.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Floor replacement question

Also, am I right that the 1708 stringer to hull tabbing should be 2 layers?

Since the 1708 has an attached CSM layer, I also don't need to add layers of CSM, right?

Thanks again. The knowledge I have gained here would have been hard to find anywhere else and I would have made a lot of expensive mistakes.

Steve

Yes on the two layers of 1708, now as far as do you need CSM in between the layers of 1708, yes and no. True the 1708 does have mat attached to it. Personally I still use a layer of CSM against the wood and the the 1708, now if I'm doing both layers at once while its all still wet I don't add a second layer of CSM, just follow with the second 1708,

Now if I let it cure out before the second layer of 1708 then I do use another layer of CSM first. The reason is the CSM give a better bond layer to the slightly uneven surface and help "fill in" the tiny gaps here and there. Make sense?

CW

 

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

1708 will give you consistency and strength. . . CSM would be ok as it is often used for that very purpose.

The trick will be to get the cloth to wrap tightly over the top of the stringer as it has to make 2 right angle turns in close proximity.

That is why I was wondering if pulling the cloth tight over the top of the stringer and stapling it down on the sides (monel staples) would be a good idea (as I read here somewhere).

Steve

 

[62cruiserinc]

Re: Floor replacement question

Yes on the two layers of 1708, now as far as do you need CSM in between the layers of 1708, yes and no. True the 1708 does have mat attached to it. Personally I still use a layer of CSM against the wood and the the 1708, now if I'm doing both layers at once while its all still wet I don't add a second layer of CSM, just follow with the second 1708,

Now if I let it cure out before the second layer of 1708 then I do use another layer of CSM first. The reason is the CSM give a better bond layer to the slightly uneven surface and help "fill in" the tiny gaps here and there. Make sense?

CW

Yes this does make sense. Being new at it, I probably won't try multiple layers at once. So I will probably add the CSM layers as you did.


Steve

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Floor replacement question

Again, IMHO this is how you should install your stringers.