flotation foam

pontiacfieroguy

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What is your thoughts on using empty plastic water bottles under the floor to reduce the amount of foam that is needed to completely fill all area under the floor? I've never seen an empty bottle sink and I've seen small islands built with them.
 

fhhuber

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OK for a temporary way to add flotation. It has to be trapped so it can't get out or shift so all of them end up at one end of the boat. The tendency would be for them to end up in the bow or coming out any place they could if they are not restrained.

Better than no flotation...
 

Scott Danforth

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Foam offers two functions. Floatation, and structure. plastic bottles will break down after a while.

I would suggest the proper foam, properly encapsulated under the deck.
 

fhhuber

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Found out the Laser sailboat has a couple of "bubbles" that essentially look like 1 gal water jugs installed from the factory.
 

Patfromny

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If it is an aluminium boat you could use the insulation foam sheets from Lowes or HD. I think bottles would be too much work for little benifit. The sheets of foam won't break the bank and they will stay put better than bottles. I would save money on things like gauges and shiny stuff, not saftey. Reuse old gauges and wait till next season for the shiney stuff. If it is a fiberglass boat, as stated above, it is often part of the structure and should be put back the way it was when new. This is just my opinion. Good luck.
 
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jbcurt00

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Plastic bottles also change volume w temperature changes.

Inefficient use of space, bottles are round, so theres lots of voids left around them.

Bottles not recommended.
 

bonz_d

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It's been done before and is not the best solution for floatation. I've read a number of threads where this is discussed quite extensively. The arguments against seem to be mostly that 1; the bottles will shift around. 2; the bottles will collapse under pressure, 3; bottles will expand and contract with temps.

After all this I am still considering doing this in a modified form and will explain.

I have 2 large floatation boxes in the stern of my Sea Nymph. They are each about 5 cu.ft. buy my best questimataion. The pour in foam kits being sold are either too little, too much or have to mix different size kits which gets costly. So my thinking is to use heavy walled plastic containers as a filler and encapsulate them inside the foam. This will prohibit them from shifting around.

The other 2 issues, expansion/contraction I'm not going to worry about because the I don't believe the temperature swings will be great enough to be an issue. Collapsing, let's think about this. The whole idea and purpose of foam is for floatation, hence the term, which originally was "level floatation". The theory and practice was meant to keep the boat from 1; sinking and 2; to keep it level and prevent it from capsizing.

The idea is to displace water with something that adds to floatation. So how much pressure is required to compress and collapse a plastic container and then how much pressure is required to collapse that container when it is encapsulated in foam? More than the pressure of a swamped hull? If the gunwales are under water the boat has technically sunk and it doesn't matter how much foam you have the occupants are not going to be able to stay with it..
 

harleyman1975

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Not to mention If the boat were to sink and someone besides you were in it your insurance company would not cover any liability or replacement if it was discovered that the flotation was not USCG Approved.
 

pontiacfieroguy

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It's been done before and is not the best solution for floatation. I've read a number of threads where this is discussed quite extensively. The arguments against seem to be mostly that 1; the bottles will shift around. 2; the bottles will collapse under pressure, 3; bottles will expand and contract with temps.

After all this I am still considering doing this in a modified form and will explain.

I have 2 large floatation boxes in the stern of my Sea Nymph. They are each about 5 cu.ft. buy my best questimataion. The pour in foam kits being sold are either too little, too much or have to mix different size kits which gets costly. So my thinking is to use heavy walled plastic containers as a filler and encapsulate them inside the foam. This will prohibit them from shifting around.

The other 2 issues, expansion/contraction I'm not going to worry about because the I don't believe the temperature swings will be great enough to be an issue. Collapsing, let's think about this. The whole idea and purpose of foam is for floatation, hence the term, which originally was "level floatation". The theory and practice was meant to keep the boat from 1; sinking and 2; to keep it level and prevent it from capsizing.

The idea is to displace water with something that adds to floatation. So how much pressure is required to compress and collapse a plastic container and then how much pressure is required to collapse that container when it is encapsulated in foam? More than the pressure of a swamped hull? If the gunwales are under water the boat has technically sunk and it doesn't matter how much foam you have the occupants are not going to be able to stay with it..

That's what I was thinking, if I filled the space under the floor with bottles and poured foam around them to completely fill the area then I should float and use less foam.
 

Scott Danforth

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why take a chance on someones life for $30 worth of foam.

you should be able to fill the area with an 16# (8 cubic feet) kit which is about $66
 

Grandad

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It seems to me that using bottles would be a tedious task and not something to be proud of afterward. As jbcurt said, the bottles don't near fill the void, so you'd still hafta buy and install foam, though less of it. There's no way I'd use bottles, noodles or popcorn foam. When you're putting so much effort into a project, do it right. Use rigid foam board where you can and use 2-part foam where it's not practical. When she's all done sitting in the sun, you don't want to feel like you just polished a turd. Each to his own. - Grandad
 

ondarvr

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Not to mention If the boat were to sink and someone besides you were in it your insurance company would not cover any liability or replacement if it was discovered that the flotation was not USCG Approved.

Please support that with facts. I'm not saying it isn't true, only that too many myths are created by someone making a statement like this without any facts to back it up.
 
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bonz_d

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Not to mention If the boat were to sink and someone besides you were in it your insurance company would not cover any liability or replacement if it was discovered that the flotation was not USCG Approved.

The pink and blue foam isn't USCG Approved either!

Scott, I'd sure like to know where you are finding foam for $66.00 a kit.
 

fhhuber

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I wouldn't do it for the permanent flotation.

Still, the bottles are better than nothing.
 

bonz_d

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16# kit from us composites is $67.00 + +.

Looks like cost came down a bit since I last checked, still that is only 8 c.f which is not enough to do both sides of my boat, add a 4# kit would still be short or another 16# and that's way too much.

I also am not suggesting or recommending anyone else to do this. And one persons polished turd is another work of art!
 

pontiacfieroguy

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why take a chance on someones life for $30 worth of foam.

you should be able to fill the area with an 16# (8 cubic feet) kit which is about $66

My boat is 14x4 so i have about 56sqft of deck so I'm not sure 8cuft will quite fill everything. Cheapest I found was on us composites and it was $256 for 2# 40cuft kit and I think I'll need more than one.
 

bonz_d

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USCG offers a pamphlet with their calculations for most everything material....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...V86tKieq_qqiVg

Thanks for the link zool. I have seen that one and a couple others as well. One of the others I've seen was a little easier to follow the calculations but did not provide the picture diagram of placement for level floatation. This will be going into my favorites folder!

So it looks as if 1 cu.ft. of air has greater buoyancy than 1 cu.ft of foam.

Will add that by this page there is a better floatation system in my 14' Sea Nymph than there is in my newer 16' Alumacraft!
 
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