Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

[58CorrySuburban]

Hello Again,

So, I took my gear case apart and replaced the pinion gear. The teeth were completely ground down except for the top 1/16th of an inch. There were plenty of metal shavings in the lower gear case cap and gears in general.

I brought the cap, prop shaft and all the parts that slide onto it, to the sink and washed them with soap and water. When I was done there were no more shavings (on the parts I just mentioned). I lubed up the gears/barrings, and reassembled with new seals and gaskets (as per Selco manual).

I just took it out for a drive (2-3 hrs) and drained the oil to make sure it was still there and the right color. It was, but I noticed (in the sun) that the oil looked like metalic paint, having metal dust. There were some larger shavings the size of 1/2 a grain of rice but flat of course (abstract comparison but it works).

I have refilled the gear oil and filtered through a t-shirt 2-3 times and continue to get shavings (though less and less).

The question part of this thesis:

1.) Do you think that the shavings I'm getting are from the old pinion gear, and would there be enough of the system that I didn't sanitize (from the pinion gear and up) to produce residule shavings after I had run the motor?
Or-
Is there a possability that the pinion gear was warn down for some other, unresolved, reason and the shavings are from my last outing/new pinion gear?

2.) How large and how plentiful should the shavings be? (I have a 1958 Evinrude Big twin 35 hp which doesn't have magnetic plugs).

3.) Can I flush the system out with soapy water, then flush with only water then flush with gear oil? (I know it seems easier to just take the gear case back apart but I'm new to this so its not so easy for me and I don't want to mess it because it doesn't leak, everything turns smooth and its finaly back together).

Thanks again in advance for everyone's input. I know my posts are longer than most but I don't want to leave anything out, and if its too much info I try to make it easy by using bold print.

-Josh

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

Unfortunately, if you didn't rinse the case out also when it was apart, those are the remains of the old gear floating around. No amount of flushing will get it all out. They will eventually, (sooner than later) chew up the good work you just did.

 

[F_R]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

You only replaced the pinion gear? Didn't check the thrust bearings above it? Didn't replace the forward and reverse gears? Not hard to guess where the shavings are coming from. Sounds like you fixed the symptoms, not the problem.

 

[58CorrySuburban]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

The odd thing was that the forward and reverse gears looked good/100%. How could that be, is the pinion gear made of a softer metal than the forward/reverse gears? I mean the pinion gear was brutaly shreaded.

Now it shifts seamlessly and pushes the boat hard, no clinking/pings while in gear or going into gear.

I didn't know to check the thrust washer. I saw the pinion gear and said "Eureka!", brought every thing (from the pinion gear down) in and washed it, pulled a new gear from a parts motor, and began reassembly.

What would I be looking for with the thrust washer, and how big/how much metal dust/shaving is ok? Maybe I'm fine, or is that just wishfull thinking at this point?

The forums are really hoppin this time of year, thanks for spending time on this,

-Josh

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

No amount of shavings are o.k. they are just sitting there grinding everything else to bits.

 

[58CorrySuburban]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

Ok.
What do I look for as far as the thrust washer goes?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[F_R]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

The thrust bearings are above the pinion roller bearing. They consist of two flat races and a flat needle bearing. The races are not alike, pay attention to what you are taking apart. You have to remove the pinion bearing to access them. Takes a tool to get it out. I made my own.

Something caused that pinion to destruct. I don't know what it was, but it doesn't "just happen". It is almost unbelieveable that the other gears aren't damaged too, but I'll take your word for it.

 

[58CorrySuburban]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

I just began disassembling the LU, pulled the pinion gear and pinion bearing slid right out, removed a washer and what looked like broken pieces of a needle bearing began falling out.

I don't know what the h*ll is going on, because the needle bearing above the washer is 100% fine???? All the needles are accounted for, smooth, and in place.

Could these be falling from the babbit bearing into the lower unit?

Does a babit bearing have needles like a needle bearing?

If not, maybe that last guy switched out a bad needle bearing and didn't get all the old shrapnel out.

The needle bearing isn't sliding out like the pinion bearing and I don't have the tool to pull it. Is there anything behing the needle bearing I'll need to get to?

I'm trying to get some pictures onto the computer to ensure everyone that my account is accurate.

This motor is new to me, it went to crap after my second outing after 15min.

Honestly thank you guys for the help

 

[58CorrySuburban]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

Here are some pictures,

The gears from both the parts motor and the runner. Notice the lack of wear on both sets of forward and reverse gears though the one pinion bearing is shreaded.

The second photo shows the pinion bearing housing and the needle bearing in perfect condition (though when I removed the pinion and pinion bearing I found what looked to be needles from a needle bearing). Could this be coming from the bearings on the water pump end?

Behind the pinion bearing I only found one washer, and the needle bearing, is this correct?

What do I need to make a seal puller? The pinion bearing fell right out of the running motor, but is stuck in the part motor. I think I might also need to look into the water pump side of both motors, which are not sliding out so nicely.

Thanks again. Hope the pictures help,
-Josh

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

Babbit bearing is made up of lead, tin, antimony, and sometimes copper. The percentage of each depending on the application. These are always a sleeve, or split sleeve bearing. I don't know if they were ever used in an OMC engine, possibly the very early ones. I go along with FR. Those broken pieces of gear are almost glass hard, They play havoc with anything they come in contact with, including any roller, needle, or ball bearing. From the look's of that gear housing, I would be very curious how smoothly that assembly will turn when back together.

 

[58CorrySuburban]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

My Selco manual doesn't even show my motor as having needle bearings. Instead, the schematic shows (from bottom up) "washer-flat bearing-washer-bushing" but my motor had (above the pinion bearing) a washer-needle bearing, and I don't know what after that because I need a seal puller or a recipe for making one.

The real question is where else could have the mangled needle bearing be comming from. Are there needle bearings on the water pump side?

Thanks,
-Josh

 

[F_R]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

Here is the way it is:

 

[58CorrySuburban]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

I just popped the washers and bearing out of the parts motor by tapping them from the water pump side with a thin rod, and now I know what happened, and what those little needle bearing like pieces were.

They were the rollers from the flat bearing (which wasn't even in the running motor when I took it apart).

Somewhere along the line, the washer-flat bearing-washer set up siezed and tour it, and that part of the housing up (as seen in the picture above, its grooved from the washers spinning around, not flat and smooth. Is the housing still fit for service? The person "fixed" that by eliminating the top washer and flat bearing from the set-up,and put it back together with only the washer directly behind the pinion bearing. Would it be better to replace the washers and flat bearing even though that area is rough or would it be better to reinstall the way I found it, having removed the broken rollers from the flat bearing?

 

[58CorrySuburban]

Re: Flushing Shavings from Gear Case While Assembled?

I meant "...having removed the broken rollers of flat bearing from the gear housing?".