Foam replacement

[NatedoggAZ]

Thanks steve_h7 !

I called my fiberglass supplier here in Phoenix late yesterday and apparently they also sell the 2# foam.

What my supplier does is break down mass quantities from CompositesOne into quantities for the smaller consumer:
https://www.compositesone.com/product/foams-elastomers/

Their foam is either manufactured by NCFI Polyurethanes (out of NC) or by Polyfoam Products (out of FL).

My supplier has a half gallon/half gallon kit that supposedly yields 4 cubic feet of foam for about $40 which is perfect for my application.

..I just have to drive across most of Phoenix to get it... but I can have it tomorrow =)

ND

 

[gm280]

Thanks steve_h7 !

I called my fiberglass supplier here in Phoenix late yesterday and apparently they also sell the 2# foam.

What my supplier does is break down mass quantities from CompositesOne into quantities for the smaller consumer:
https://www.compositesone.com/product/foams-elastomers/

Their foam is either manufactured by NCFI Polyurethanes (out of NC) or by Polyfoam Products (out of FL).

My supplier has a half gallon/half gallon kit that supposedly yields 4 cubic feet of foam for about $40 which is perfect for my application.

..I just have to drive across most of Phoenix to get it... but I can have it tomorrow =)

ND

If or when you do get the Mix-N-Pour foam, try just a very little mix batch so you can see how much time you have from mixing to the expansion starts. Weather of course also effects that so a very small test mix will should you how much time you really have. And once you see that, it really isn't hard to mix and pour without issues. And, I might add, it really is fun to watch it expand too!

 

[NatedoggAZ]

Thanks gm280 !

It is supposed to be in the high 90's here this weekend.. and anyone who has been to Arizona - it is a dry heat =)

Do people just use the standard quart resin cups for the measuring?

I'm assuming that I cannot re-use a container once I mixed foam in it... unlike when I sometime re-use the mixing cups that are used for polyester resin mixing..

ND

 

[Redtruck12]

I only used 3 cups to foam my entire boat.
part A cup
part B cup
mixing cup
once it’s dried it comes out of a smooth plastic container pretty easily.

 

[steve_h7]

I used more than 3 but not many. If it hardened completely I had a nasty (or impossible) time removing it from the cup... but there's a point where it flashes off a bit and becomes sticky but isn't totally hard and would peel cleanly out of the cup with the stir stick. The A and B cups can be used over and over. I only had to get new cups for when I had mixed them and it hardened.
I used quart cups for A and B and 2 1/2 quart cups to mix them. For what it's worth...

 

[NatedoggAZ]

Redtruck12 steve_h7 Thanks for your info!

I will probably pick up a few extra mixing cups from my supplier tomorrow morning. Ill be sure to get a bigger one in which to concoct the mixture... I've heard of people using their air compressors to get out dried resin to re-use their mixing cups... perhaps that procedure can also be used to blow out the dried foam as well if needed....

I will just have to keep track and write on the cups which is the "A" and which is the "B" so I don't get confused and mess that up =)

​​​​​​​ND

 

[gm280]

Redtruck12 steve_h7 Thanks for your info!

I will probably pick up a few extra mixing cups from my supplier tomorrow morning. Ill be sure to get a bigger one in which to concoct the mixture... I've heard of people using their air compressors to get out dried resin to re-use their mixing cups... perhaps that procedure can also be used to blow out the dried foam as well if needed....

I will just have to keep track and write on the cups which is the "A" and which is the "B" so I don't get confused and mess that up =)

ND

I did basically the same as stated above. However, DON'T get the A and B cups mixed up or you will see an expanding foam in a few short minutes... But that way you can pour both parts into the measurement cups and then dump them together in another to mix. You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. Not really anything to really worry about... JMHO

 

[BillP]

I wouldn't go quite that extreme... As you said, the USCG only requires it for mfg's, but the other part is that it is only required for boats < 20 ft. Apparently something magical happens when you have a nearly identical 20ft boat compared to its foot shorter brother, no more foam required.

Can one of you provide where you found home builts are exempt from USCG flotation regs? I'm reading the regs differently

 

[Redtruck12]

Regulation or not I think anyone who doesn’t put foam in is a fool. The pluses outweigh the minus’s by far!
Manufacturers can be regulated and held legally responsible but usually only do what is required to meet minimum requirements.
even on really old stuff that didn’t require is when manufactured should have it added on a rebuild IMO.
if there’s space for foam I would put it in-regardless of regulations.

 

[BillP]

Redtruck12 steve_h7 Thanks for your info!

I will probably pick up a few extra mixing cups from my supplier tomorrow morning. Ill be sure to get a bigger one in which to concoct the mixture... I've heard of people using their air compressors to get out dried resin to re-use their mixing cups... perhaps that procedure can also be used to blow out the dried foam as well if needed....

I will just have to keep track and write on the cups which is the "A" and which is the "B" so I don't get confused and mess that up =)

ND

I save old 12 oz water bottles or larger disposals if needed. I cut them down, measure with water and mark with a felt tip so I can pour straight into the cup. Basically I only keep one or two measuring cups but rarely use them other than to mark the cut downs with..

 

[Woodonglass]

Can one of you provide where you found home builts are exempt from USCG flotation regs? I'm reading the regs differently

There is NO direct quote either way. But I am curious if you do this to ALL of your boat restoration projects and recommend all Backyard Boat Builders to this also to comply with Federal Law on confirming your Boat meets Federally Law on Floatation Foam?

FEDERAL LAW: Sec. 183.220 continued . . .
(d) Weight must be placed in the normal operating position of the motor and controls and the battery in lieu of this equipment. The required quantity of weight used for this purpose depends upon the maximum rated horsepower of the boat being tested and is specified in Columns 2 and 4 of Table 4 for the swamped weight of the motor and controls and for the submerged weight or the battery, respectively.
(e) Permanent fuel tanks must be filled with fuel and each external opening into the fuel tank must be sealed.
(f) The boat must be keel down in the water.
(g) The boat must be swamped, allowing water to flow between the inside and outside of the boat, either over the sides, through a hull opening, or both. Entrapped air in the flooded portion of the boat must be eliminated.
(h) Water must flood the two largest air chambers and all air chambers integral with the hull.

 

[BillP]

There is NO direct quote either way. But I am curious if you do this to ALL of your boat restoration projects and recommend all Backyard Boat Builders to this also to comply with Federal Law on confirming your Boat meets Federally Law on Floatation Foam?

FEDERAL LAW: Sec. 183.220 continued . . .
(d) Weight must be placed in the normal operating position of the motor and controls and the battery in lieu of this equipment. The required quantity of weight used for this purpose depends upon the maximum rated horsepower of the boat being tested and is specified in Columns 2 and 4 of Table 4 for the swamped weight of the motor and controls and for the submerged weight or the battery, respectively.
(e) Permanent fuel tanks must be filled with fuel and each external opening into the fuel tank must be sealed.
(f) The boat must be keel down in the water.
(g) The boat must be swamped, allowing water to flow between the inside and outside of the boat, either over the sides, through a hull opening, or both. Entrapped air in the flooded portion of the boat must be eliminated.
(h) Water must flood the two largest air chambers and all air chambers integral with the hull.

Your reg quote is only one of three classifications so it doesn't cover all boats. It really doesn't matter what I recommend but it is people should follow the law. The regs clearly state "all persons" must comply to the regs. Home builders are considered non commercial MFGs but do not have to pass the USCG testing for commercial resale. Home builts and reconstruction are not excluded from following fed floatation law. Once a boat is sold from the factory it must comply.

 

[BillP]

Your reg quote is only one of three classifications so it doesn't cover all boats. It really doesn't matter what I recommend but it is people should follow the law. The regs clearly state "all persons" must comply to the regs. Home builders are considered non commercial MFGs but do not have to pass the USCG testing for commercial resale. Home builts and reconstruction are not excluded from following fed floatation law. Once a boat is sold from the factory it must comply.

I just got off the phone with two uscg inspection officers at Port Canaveral, Fl.. Basically there are NO exemptions on floatation (or any other safety reg) for homebuilts or rebuilds. They referred me to their Backyard Boat Builders reg circular for specifics. There are other regs (not in this circular) that say a hired professional must comply to current regs when rebuilding. So anyone thinking they are exempt from floatation regs should be aware.

 

[Redtruck12]

Once again
regulation or not
if it had foam-put foam in
if it didn’t have foam - put foam in

 

[BillP]

natedog, the easiest way is to foam while the deck is off and level as required. No, you do not have to use pour in foam and I don't use it because it holds water, even closed cell holds water but absorbs it slower. Styrofoam aka EPS is vastly more water proof and can be placed as needed. I use dock floatation billets coated with epoxy resin to fuel proof them. You can actually use any material for floatation. No, you are not exempt from the floatation regs.

 

[gm280]

Just my take on flotation. if you are ever out in the water, well away from any shoreline, and your boat starts to fill up with water, having flotation means you will at least have something to stay with instead of trying to swim to any shore. And even the absolute best swimmers gets tired way quicker then you think. So flotation (life vest) for yourself is a must as well. JMHO

 

[GA_Boater]

This is so far off topic now that it is beyond saving.

The babysitter called in sick. Closed.