Foam

[aristocraft]

hey everyone. there are many questions pertaining to the foam in the boats. i am posting this now for a few needing help at the moment, so i hope you guys read this. Flotation is required by the coastguard. closed cell foam more specifically. unfortunately all foams will eventually absorb the water if left immersed in it. even new foam. so we are talking about boats 40 years old here, some have no issues, some do. So whats the difference? well its all in how the boat is kept. Boats that are kept dry, and covered generally will never have a problem. All the boats i have ever had to fix were stored with no cover and the nose pointing downhill, creating a giant bathtub/mosquito hang out. over time closed cell foam will absorb the liquid around it. once the foam absorbs the water, you are in for a job. not a life ending job, but a job no less.
First you will want to find out if you have saturated foam. there are a few places to check. one is in the ski locker in the back there are two holes. the one on the side has a tube for the blower running through it, but sometimes you can get around the edges and check the foam there. the other spot would be under the seats, you can sometimes access foam, although this tends to be a high spot. the best location for checking on your foam is under you carpet in the rear. unfortunately this involves a little work. you will need to pull the carpet up between the back seat the the middle seat. once this is taken up you will see where the original foam was poured in. on each side a 3 inch hole was cut in the floor and the foam was poured in. then a plug was added and it was glassed back up. get the plug out and you have good access to the foam below and you will know instantly when you poke it with your finger if its saturated. if not, good for you. if so, then read below.
fixing the foam. well you will first need to remove the carpet on both sides between the rear seats and the middle seats. then comes the cutting fun. the easiest place to cut the re-glass later is just inside the recessed area the carpet rests in. cut an inch or two inside the carpet so that your beautiful glass work later on will be covered back up with the carpet. so by now you should have two giant access holes to the foam. I have no best method yet for getting it out. it changes every time. but generally it involves a normal hammer and giant screwdriver and just start breaking it out. i also use the hook end of a crow bar to help grab it out from up under the hard to get to places. once you get it out. let it air out, then re pour new foam. glass in the cut out pieces from earlier, and re-glue carpet. good job your now done.
this should get you all on your way, and I hope it helps many along the way. for parts and info let us know. thanks
www.aristocraftboats.com

 

[1923waterbug]

Re: Foam

Thanks, for a well written article and your taking the time to do this. -- I will be taking said steps tomorrow.

 

[1923waterbug]

Re: Foam

Wipeout!!!! I got water!!!!

Here is the best first step for everybody.

Don't do nothing but drill a small hole right through the carpet about center.

You can silocone the hole easily and it won't even be visable!

I did what Scott said above but there were no three inch holes visable. -- They may not have had them in1968, the first year. -- So I called and got Bill.

He said those holes and plugs can be hard to see but he wasn't sure about a 1968.

I suggested that a drill and then a hole saw would accomplish the same thing and he said yes but better still to just drill a 1/4 or 3/8 hole a few inches deep and see what comes up and then dip a rod or something down the hole and see if it gets wet.

He said there was a 1/2 inch plywood covering the foam on top that I would get to first.

If the top is dry you are probably OK!

The plywood came up wet! -- End of story!

If I'm wet he said it is a large job to remove and replace and get the new foam in and flat and smooth and then put new plywood in for under flooring and then put the four foot hole that was cut back on and fiberglassed.

Completely doable but none the less no small job by any means.

He said to weigh the boat and if it's over 1800#, like 2500# or 3000# or something that is another way to tell.

If the top is dry you are probably all right.

The floor is usually soft if you are wet too he said.

Mine seemed solid but I was wet.

I discovered the problem quite by accident when I went to change a tire and it weighed a ton. -- The jack could hardly lift it!

Bill and Scott are great people, we are very lucky to have them!

Thanks to both of you!

 

[t-nice98]

Re: Foam

I just purchased a '75ish. Thanks for all the info. My foam is pretty saturated. Do you know how far the foam goes? I have the holes in the carpet insert area opened up and have started to take some out. Does it go past the middle seat? Also, is the foam for structure?

 

[Ricks Project]

Re: Foam

Hey t-nice98,
Welcome to the forum. I don't have a 9-teen but the foam in my 8-teen goes almost from bow to stern. I had to cut the seat bases to get the foam in the bow. I still yet have some to get out. I think Cedarjunki was able to get by with only replacing from the rear facing front seats and back. Maybe you will get that lucky.

If it's saturated it will be heavy. I'm using a 55 gallon trash can and liner on the outside of the boat and after breaking up some I'll shovel it into the can. A little at a time taken to the dumpster keeps it from piling up. So far I guess my boat has lost at least 500lbs.

The foam is for structure. Walking on the deck without the foam is a little shaky. Even though my wood decking was rotten the deck was solid before I took out the foam.

Scott at Aristocraft is a good source for information and parts for your boat. Their website is aristocraftboats.com and contact information is there.

Good luck with the project and through up some pics if you can, we love looking at them.

Rick

 

[t-nice98]

Re: Foam

Thanks for your reply. Did your 18' still float ok with all of that saturated foam? Do you think its gonna kill the boat if I take it out a few times before tearing into it? I have felt little but some dry foam, but only took a bit out of the 4 inch holes so hopefully I dont have to dig the full length. I got mine for $650 with a strong Merc motor and a solid body. Missing the rear seats, but I may fabricate something. Needs a good cleaning but I think its gonna make a great boat when finished. I Havent been able to get it out yet but hopefully soon. Heres a quick pick. I will start posting some tear down pictures when I can get back out there. Its been raining like crazy here in Michigan lately.

 

[H20wens]

Re: Foam

Hello all,
I'm wondering - has anyone tried chemically dissolving the foam? I know that some types of foam will dissolve with MEK and some with gasoline. Many fiberglass models are made by carving a foam block to form, laying the glass and then melting the foam. Just a thought.

My 9-teen performs great and doesn't seem to be heavy so I'm not going to look. In this case ignorance is bliss.

 

[idiotcountry2]

Re: Foam

Are there any common points of water infiltration that would cause the foam to become saturated?

tm

 

[dbkerley]

Re: Foam

hey everyone. there are many questions pertaining to the foam in the boats. i am posting this now for a few needing help at the moment, so i hope you guys read this. Flotation is required by the coastguard. closed cell foam more specifically. unfortunately all foams will eventually absorb the water if left immersed in it. even new foam. so we are talking about boats 40 years old here, some have no issues, some do. So whats the difference? well its all in how the boat is kept. Boats that are kept dry, and covered generally will never have a problem. All the boats i have ever had to fix were stored with no cover and the nose pointing downhill, creating a giant bathtub/mosquito hang out. over time closed cell foam will absorb the liquid around it.
www.aristocraftboats.com

I hope that helps.

 

[idiotcountry2]

Re: Foam

I hope that helps.

Not so much... In theory the hull is a sealed envelope, filled with foam - correct? I'm just wondering if there are common places of cracking or other areas that will allow water to seep in and saturate the foam.

tm

 

[dbkerley]

Re: Foam

The bow drains through the ski locker all the way to the bilge. There are several openings in the locker near the bilge that could allow water to enter and migrate forward if the hull were allowed to sit and fill. Over time, the freeze/thaw cycling would cause cracking that would allow additional water to enter resulting in what was described earlier. Other than that, I would have to say that owner neglect and incidental damage would be the major factors.

Mine seems to have always lived indoors or at least under cover and doesn't exhibit signs of saturated foam. I assume there is some form of lamination between the liner and the outer hull at or near the opening for the bow drain. However, the windshield drains into a catch basin under the sliding section and that drains out of the boat through a tube under the bow eye. By design there really isn't a way for the problem to occur other than through neglect.

These are quite different boats and it has taken me some time to get to know mine.

 

[idiotcountry2]

Re: Foam

The bow drains through the ski locker all the way to the bilge. There are several openings in the locker near the bilge that could allow water to enter and migrate forward if the hull were allowed to sit and fill. Over time, the freeze/thaw cycling would cause cracking that would allow additional water to enter resulting in what was described earlier. Other than that, I would have to say that owner neglect and incidental damage would be the major factors.

Mine seems to have always lived indoors or at least under cover and doesn't exhibit signs of saturated foam. I assume there is some form of lamination between the liner and the outer hull at or near the opening for the bow drain. However, the windshield drains into a catch basin under the sliding section and that drains out of the boat through a tube under the bow eye. By design there really isn't a way for the problem to occur other than through neglect.

These are quite different boats and it has taken me some time to get to know mine.

Perfect. Exactly the information I was looking for!