FOR snapperbait, Furuno manual is missing pages

amitropo

Cadet
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
24
the manual seems to be missing some pages.I am a fist time user and not familiar with what gain and range does on a fish finder,can u briefly explain please.....or anyone feel free to help me.....thanks
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: FOR snapperbait, Furuno manual is missing pages

Sure, I'll give it a shot for you. Its all pretty easy actually so we'll just go though it all. This is going to take a while to type so there may be other responses that cover this that pop up before I'm done so there may be duplicate information - sorry about that.<br /><br />Start with gain, just to get it out of the way. All of our recreational fish finder's put out all the power they are capable of all the time. That would be fine except that in shallow water or water with a lot of debris submerged there is an overload of information comming back in the form of return echos. What the gain does is turn down the sensivitity of the reveiver side of the fish finder. Now the way they are set up its a little bit backwards. What it means to turn up the gain is actually to reduce the level of signal reduction - a bouble negative. Think of it this way; do you remember the days when the old folks used to wear hearing aids with a wire to a small amplifier usually carried in a shirt pocket? Well, with the old hearing aids when the user wanted to hear faint sounds they turned up the receiver. It didn't make the speaker speak any louder, it just turned up the amplifier's ability to use what was comming in.<br /><br />OK, how they work and the importance of range scales. This one is very important and not well understood from what I've seen,<br /><br />All of our fish finders work the same way. A power signal is generated in the display unit. That signal is sent to the transducer. The transucer pings (clicks) as a result of the power surge. The sound waver from the ping travels through the water at 4,500 feet per second. Sound strikes whatever and bounces back as an echo. The echo returns to the transducer where its remaining sound energy is converted back to electricity. That electricity is wired back to the display unit. The display unit interprets the returing signal for strength and how long it took from the outgoing surge to the return echo. The length of time determins the depth, the strength of the return determins how the echo will be displayed.<br /><br />At the display unit incomming signals are analized for strength and time in transit. More than one echo may result from any outgoing signal, all are analized and displayed. One vertical column of pixels (little dots in a matrix on the screen) will be displayed with echos noted at appropriate indicated depths and strengths (done by use of color or tone). This process is repeated many times and as each new set of information is processed by the display unit it is exhibited on the screen and the one that had been there is moved one column to the left. So in time a picture marches across the screen. That's it in a nutshell.<br /><br />So, what is range and what's it got to do with anything, you might reasonably ask. OK, here goes.<br /><br />One of the great limiting problems with any fish finder is that its transducer can not do two things at once. That is to say it can not talke and listen at the same time, it can not be pinging and waiting for a return echo at once. So, that's one thing. So that tells us that a display unit's software must decide how frequently to put out sound pulses and what the duration of each sould pulse must be. Because it takes sound longer to reach the bottom and return an echo in deep water than it does in shallow water some things should be clear. If the fish finder thinks its in deep water it will have to slow down the number of pings it can make in a minute and each one it makes need to be of a little bit longer duration. In shallow water it can get away with quick little pings shot out in rapid succession, but in deeper water it has to slow way down to give time for the sound to get to the bottom and the echo to get back. Make sense?<br /><br />The thing is that for a fish finder to really perform well it has to have the ability to vary its pulse rate and pulse duration - and to some extent or another all of our machines have that ability.<br /><br />Now, the faster a machine can shoot the more detailed the picture can be. But if its too fast the return echos from one pulse may be returning at the time the machine is alredy fireing for a later cycle. That Won't work. The opposite won't work either, where the machine is shooting long duration pings on long intervals. In any case to work properly, or at all really, the machine has to have some idea how deep the water its in is. That's what range scales are for.<br /><br />Range scales define the maximum depth that will be surveyed on the screen, and that is what the user sees. What the user doesn't see is that the depth range that is selected also determines the Pulse Repititon Rate and the Pulse duration. For high quality fishfinders the maximum you can expect on the repititon rate is about 1,500 pulses per minute. The duration will vary but from about 0.15 to about 3.5 ms. A fish finder that is not in the proper range will only be able to make sense out of signals that are within the range that the machine is set on. <br /><br />Most machines these days have an Automatic feature. What this feature does is find the working range scale and stick with it until it looses a return echo. After that it just goes and searches though the available range scales until it hears a return.<br /><br />So one of the tasks for the new owner, if his machine allows for user defined range scales, is to figure out how he or she wants the display to look and when to make the switch between ranges and how that will effect use. Almost no one really gives this much thought but if you do it will do wonders to enhance your enjoyment of your machine. I'll let others tell you about how to pick what to set, or at least what sorts of things to pay attention to.<br /><br />Thom
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: FOR snapperbait, Furuno manual is missing pages

Wow.. :eek: Good Job ThomWV...<br /><br />Weird.. Gain and range show up in the directions for me..
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: FOR snapperbait, Furuno manual is missing pages

Well, I'm snowed in again today, so I might as well rambel on a little bit about range scales.<br /><br />Let's think about them from the user's point of view and ignore the technical requirements for a moment.<br /><br />Most recreational fish finders have smallscreens, maybe 3 inches by 4 inches or so, and that's not a lot of area to convey useful information. It is the range scale, in relation to the depth of water, that defines how much of the screen is useful. <br /><br />Let's start with what's desirable and what the operator can do to control the box.<br /><br />First what is range scale? Well, simply put it is the area represented on the screen from top to bottom. The top of the screen will usually display the water surface (I'm going to ignore offsets for now) at the top and some maximum depth at the bottom. It is that bottom maximum depth that people are refering to when they say range scale. It is adjustable by the user or automatically on almost all recrational units.<br /><br />Let's say you have the machine set up so that you manually control the maximum range it is set to. If you are in 50 feet of water it doesn't make much sense to have the range scale set at 200 feet. If its at 200 feet the bottom three quarters of the screen will be blank and only the top quarter will give useful information. Clearly any detail in the area of interest, that top quarter, will be lost because the picture size is so small. Were the same machine switched to a 100 foot range scale you would effectively double the resolution of the machine. If the owner has the ability to set their own range scales it would be a good idea to set one range scale that is just a bit deeper than the water they expected to be operating in. For instance, if your favorite fishing grounds are in water that is generally 30~40 feet deep a good choice for an owner-defined range scale might be 50 feet. That would generally maximize the use of the limited area of the screen while at the same time allowing for continued coverage should you be lucky to pass over a hole or other anomoly in the bottom. This is an ideal situation.<br /><br />Some guys like to run their depth finders in an automatic mode. In automatic the machine will switch from one depth range to another based on where its software thinks the bottom is likely to be. Here's a quote from a fish finder manual that describes this particular manufacturer's scheme for making automatic range scale changes. <br /><br />"The range changes automatically to locate the bottom on the lower half of the screen. It jumps to one step shallower range whe4n bottom echoes reach a halfway point of the full scale fromtop and to one step deeper range when they come to the lower edge of the scale"<br /><br />This is a good scheme and probably actually morrors what an experienced user would be doing were they to manually set their range scale. It does have its problems though.<br /><br />One of the most annoying things a depth finder can do is jump ranges back and forth while you are tring to make heads or tails out of the display. Let's say that you fish in water that is between 80~120 feet deep. Lets also say that one of the factory default for one of the range scales is 100 feet. As you fish in water like that the fish finder will constantly be jumping from one range scale (the 100 foot one) to the next range scale, and back. It will drive you absolutly nuts. In a case like that if the scales are user adjustable you would be a lot better off setting one scale at about 130 feet so that an uninterupted display is available. I think just about everyone can picture this one in their mind's eye.<br /><br />Let me give you a little personal note on this one, because its very important to me for a purpose other than fishing.<br /><br />I've mentioned before that I use my fish finder when traveling through a small, narrow, private channel that I use. From where I fish I leave a slip that is in about 10 feet of water. That goes to a channel with a 15 foot depth but then I leave that to go to a private channel that may vary between 4 and 6 feet. My boat draws two and a half feet of water when not on plane. After about a mile of that channel I move into deeper water, up to about 60 feet, and then very quickly back into water that is less shallow. I will pass over some shoal water of about 10 feet in there too. Now, as a person who is using the depth finder as a warning device to keep from running ground, or much worse, its very important to me that the machine NOT be hunting and pecking looking for bottom at the time when I'm trying to keep fiberglass off of rocks. The same thing is true when we finally get to put lines in the water. When we go fishing we go through the shallow waters I mentioned above then come out into open water. After that shoal water it gets to about 30 feet and then as we go out the water depth slowly increases until by the time we are about 20 miles off shore its up to about 100 feet. In the next 10 miles it will increase in depth to about 250 feet. After that it will go to 600 feet in one mile. In the next mile it will drop to a depth of about 2,000 feet. We troll and almost all of our fishing will be between that 250 and 2,000 foot water. As you can immagine that would give our fish finder quite a workout in the automatic mode.<br /><br />My point here is this. As the user you should give a lot of thought to what your own conditons are like and if there is something you can do in choosing your own range scales to suit your own needs. If you don't currently have a depth finder that allows you to do this and you are looking around for a new machine anyway its a feature that you should be very interested in. Its overlooked as an important feature, mostly I think because a lot of guys haven't given any thought to how it might be used to their advantage.<br /><br />So those are some of my comments on that part of fish finder understanding. We could talk about this all day long if you want to though.<br /><br />Thom <br /><br />If you were fishing in 50 feet of water
 

amitropo

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Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
24
Re: FOR snapperbait, Furuno manual is missing pages

Thankyou for all your help,please keep it coming as i find it interesting and have never put that much thought into it.THANKS AGAIN......
 
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