For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

[POINTER94]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

LOOK OUT PONY, HE'S COMING RIGHT AT US!!

 

[QC]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

Wow! I can see how you guys spent your Thanksgiving . . . As for me I spent it at Lake Havasu enjoying unusual late season warmth and also enjoying using mass amounts of carbon to propel me (and my brood, ) 53.7 MPH across the lake for extended periods for no other reason than I enjoy using hydrocarbons to propel things. Rock-on!!!!

Oh, and we also had a little beachside campfire that was extremely inefficient, we used it for warmth and for good ole fashioned outdoorness. Thank God or some other person with a cool head for allowing this million year old tradition!!! It was really fun.

BTW, I chose the word "brood" above just for JasonJ. I chose to have three kids, the last one was due to irresponsibility on my part, at least that's what the wife always says, oh man, but that felt good too . . .

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

8) Still feeling there is no reseach available for this theory? Google "Mini Ice Age" and you will get a number of sites. Do I belive this will actually happen......not necessarily. That being said this theory has been gaining a lot of support and evidence over the years. The Mini Ice Age did happen, though no one really knows why, there are some out there who believe it was a result of the Medievil warming period that came before it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you see it isnt necesarily my belief, and it certainly isnt a "hunch" I didnt just make it up.

No but you are repeating just that a "Hunch" trying to lend it credibility.Make no mistake Pony this world is far more driven by agenda than truth, or better said ego.

If you do not take that into account everytime you see a new theroy, discovery or revalation 99% of the time your going to led to believe the wrong thing. We'd like to believe it's pure science for the betterment of mankind, all that warm fuzzy stuff, but anytime there is a new "awareness" understand that huge ego's are on the line and money which tend's to corrupt the outcome.

A bit of a jaded response, perhap's but more one of caution or "conservatism" Ohh there's that ugly word again.

In the end i am coming to believe that is why we turn to our next generation and there youth, perhap's better said there innocence not so much clouded by there success's or agenda's, but there enthusiasm for the truth.

As to Al Gore that guy try's to jump on anything that is new and perhap's contraversail, his agenda's are not the I-net nor the enviroment, his agenda is himself and he will exploit any avenue to achieve his ends.

Anyway's those mini ice ages are intresting.....as to there cause who know's, man made....bah i would like to see the number's run if all of mankind (at that time period) started there humble cooking fire and measure it against say Mount St Helen's blow or better said the Krakatoa eruption,

Now bear in mind this post is purely speculation and conjecture........... a opinion.......Ummm it's Saturday morning and im bored to death.........

 

[rodbolt]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

you guys are to funny.
al gore is a joke.
global warming not quite so much a joke.
global pollution that is killing off species? not a joke at all.
but hey, lets bring back DDT, it killed bugs, lets bring back cheap coal fired electical plants. lord knows I need cheap lectricity no matter how many fish and trees die in the upper mid west and east west.
and who cares about what dies in the north east as the have rotten brains from all the road salt anyway.
nope. its been proven for many many years.
man CANNOT have an impact on the environment.
just as bush WON the war, again.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

I agree with you on many thing's there Rodbolt more than youll know. But its a twofold problem maybe three,our perception,action's and more importantly our ignorance...

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

Treehugger.....d

 

[treedancer]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

Did I hear someone call? …..Treehugger..... "> Oops sorry wrong number.

Quote QC

BTW, I chose the word "brood" above just for JasonJ. I chose to have three kids, the last one was due to irresponsibility on my part, at least that's what the wife always says, oh man, but that felt good too . . .

Always nice to have a spare or two.8)

 

[treedancer]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...


Hey Pointer been perusing your link in anticipation of bashing it, until I got into the technical subjects. Got some pretty cool info there, his take on the fourth amendment is “gasp” almost liberal isn’t it? Of course the other part of the link is pure propaganda.

They have to serve Kool-Aid, in fifty-five gallon drums. Still scouring the link, might be some redeeming qualities that I over looked besides the technical subjects.Will bookmark it for the technical subjects, thanks for the informative link.

(http://www.akdart.com/index.html)

 

[QC]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

BTW, the ban and subsequent paranoia regarding DDT is responsible for way more human deaths than saved birds from thinning egg shells. This is EXACTLY why I post on these Global Warming threads. The resulting, irrational fear which justifies drastic measures, is what we should be most afraid of . . .

 

[POINTER94]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

Some of us think Malaria is something to be ignored when thin egg shells are at risk.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

"BTW, I chose the word "brood" above just for JasonJ. I chose to have three kids, the last one was due to irresponsibility on my part, at least that's what the wife always says, oh man, but that felt good too . . ."

I just like to refer to kids as brood, more for comedy than anything else.

A lot of good points have been made. A few shreiky extremest points have been made as well, but no need to dwell on that.

Al Gores extreme enviro-psycosis was part of why I voted for Bush the first time around. I saw the potential for extreme environmentalism getting too much power with Gore in office. While there is some righty ideology that bugs the snot out of me, there is nothing that stresses me out more than some of the enviromentality.

My little town has been trying to get a bypass built around it for countless years, as long as I can remember. My town is small, about 8000-ish people. We have a major highway that basically enters, passes through the downtown, and exits the other end of town. During the summer the town is gridlocked with hundreds of semi trucks, RVs, cars, you name it. The bypass would eliminate this, but the extremist environuts have successfully blocked the bypass from being approved because one concrete pylon will be in the water and they worry about the impact on fish. They are not too worried about the marina that is approximately 50 feet from this pylon. They are not worried about the polution all those gridlocked vehicles are putting into the air just sitting in town. They are worried about fish. The frustration over this just about makes me want to smack every hippie I see.

So when I see people write about Gore and using anything to further an agenda, I can see the validity of that point. The other thing I see is a lack of middle ground. Its either mow-it-all-down of don't-touch-anything-green. We can live and not destroy the environment.

Hate to say it PW2, but if that company car was a hybrid or flex-fuel, I would be able to take it more seriously. I myself drive a gas sucker, and I admit it. I also drive that gas sucker about 6000 miles a year, so I basically use the same amount of fuel as someone in a more efficient veicle that drives 15000 miles a year. I would gladly drive a 50 mpg Civic if I could A: afford a car payment, and 2: tow my boat with it, and C: haul all the crap I seem to generate to the dump. I just have to do what I can by driving less, using less energy at home, and recycling what I can.

 

[PW2]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

Quote PW2,
"FTR, I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee and the company I work for pays the gas. Your point? "

PW, I think this points out exactly what all of us have been saying. I guess it is OK to pollute if a rich company pays for your gas? They are going to take away your secret decoder ring for this little Faux Paus.

Well, let's see. I used my Jeep over the last few years to supervise the planting of hundreds of thousands of tree seedlings, just a few of which in their life span will turn through photosynthesis the amount of CO2 my Jeep produces into O2 that you may well breathe.

No thanks is necessary. I get paid to do it. And I sure as heck sleep well at night, nor do I see any hypocrisy at all in this, nor in Al Gore flying in a jet. There is no move to do a complete u-turn in lifestyle choices, but only a slight alteration in course.

I do see hypocrisy and not a little irony in the notion that you seem to condemn the politization of environmental issues, and for your evidence cite "studies" funded primarily by the oil industry.

And I suppose next you'll tell us that the planting of those hundreds of thousands of trees were planted specifically to offset the effects of greenhouse emissions and not to simply be cut down and used as lumber as was the millions of acres of forest were that preceded the need to plant them to begin with.

Of course not. They were planted specifically to grow into large trees that can be turned into lumber. It is, of course, America's renewable resource.
The fact that they help clean the environment is a happy coincidence.

The point is, of course, that the goal is certainly not to eliminate greenhouse gas emissions. Far from it. Those trees I planted need CO2 to thrive. The goal is to modify the amount of those emissions in order to achieve a balance, scientifically tested.

 

[treedancer]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

Quote JasonJ

The bypass would eliminate this, but the extremist environuts have successfully blocked the bypass from being approved because one concrete pylon will be in the water and they worry about the impact on fish.

I hear ya Jason, don’t anybody get the idea that I’m some kind of whacko environmentalist. The reason,I’m in the state of Missouri is indirectly because environmental regulations.

When I got out of the Marine corps I went to work for my uncles Logging company, at the time it was headquartered in St. Maries Idaho, of course we moved quite a bit between Idaho, Oregon plus at the time Northern Calif.

Spent a lot of quality time on Lake Coeur d’Alene, plus that area had some of the finest elk hunting in the NW, but that could be something to talk about on a whole new thread.

What im getting at is that the damn spotted owl put me out of a work and eventually got me living in the state of Missouri. Don’t get me wrong, I love living here and get back in the NW where most of my family still lives at least twice year.

My late uncle, the founder of the company that is still in business, now headquartered in Oregon, loved the spotted Owl (Not) so much that he had one stuffed and put on his desk.

My point is that there is whole lot of wiggle room in the environmental regulations that are being used to put some twist in the laws that make no sense at all.

I look at the beautiful St. Joe River, the highest navigable river in the world, then I think about a river about two miles from where I’m at now ,another navigable river, the Mississippi, and I think Don which one you rather be eating fish from? Thats a no brainer isnt it?

Well there are still some live fish in it, not like parts of the Gulf of Mexico that have so much pollution that nothing can live, as per this link.

http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/index.html

O yes you’re right this post has got some good legs on it, not to much political" rhetoric" and a whole lot of good conversations, most likely not many minds have been changed, but everybody is able to get there points across without to much BS.

 

[crunch]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

High Court to Hear Global Warming Case

Hopefully there will be some Real Climatologists there to testify, not just Algore clones...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-11-26-05-09-13

 

[ob]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

In response to PW2:

OK.Because you seemed to have conveniently omitted that little piece of reality in your original comment.The goal is to farm your own trees because the original forests have been decimated as a result of the widespread use of lumber.I personally don't have a problem with it.But to imply that the lumber industry has replenished what was once widespread forested regions by farming there own which provide a ecological benifit that parralels mother nature and puts back as much or more than it takes is misleading.It compares to big oil companies, which you frequently voice your disdain of,implying that offshore oil rigs provide a habitat for marine life which benefits the environment and somehow offsets any detrimental effects of its extraction with regards to leaks ,spills,or emmisions.

Fact is ,both are in business "primarily" for profit,not to create some warm fuzzy healthy planet.

I'm wondering what happens to all of the wildlife..birds,squirrels,insects ,and the like that cohabitate with these generic forests after they're cut down.Is there some notification of eviction,or are they just an extra expendable comodity that wouldn't exist to begin with were it not for tree farming.I mean as long as we are on the 'benefit to nature' topic.

 

[PW2]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

Ah, treedancer, spotted owls! I know them well.

Unfortunately, TD, that whole thing had virtually nothing to do with owls, spotted or otherwise. They just got the blame, and can't defend themselves.

If it wasn't for owls, they would have used flying squirrels, or some other obscure critter.

The reality is that you cannot harvest more than is growing in the forest in perpetuity. There is no federal law about the US Forest Service or the BLM or the various state DNR's putting up more timber for sale than is being replaced through growth, but there are laws against potentially harming endangered species through habitat elimination.

That is why it went to court. Because ultimately politicians controlled the forest, and they could increase gov't revenues without raising taxes by simply increasing the amount of timber sold--regardless whether it was a sustainable practice or not.

It caught up to them finally, and environmentalists, as well as the poor owls, take all the blame.

 

[technostingray]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

I like eggs.

 

[PW2]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

And ok, before you get too cynical about the logging industry, think of it this way. These trees have a 70-90 year rotation cycle before they are ready to harvest again. How many industries do you know that are willing to invest in something they won't see any return for 70 years.

There is nothing "warm and fuzzy" about any of this at all. I care about global warming because it presents serious problems potentially to things I care about. Doing something now is likely to have a minor impact--waiting for 20 to 30 years is likely to be too late.

I've seen what human activity, unregulated, can do to other things I care about.

And FTR, we don't magage solely for timber production--we manage with biological diversity in mind---Before, during, and after harvest.

 

[treedancer]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...


How right you are P W, this is a link to some interesting reading on harvesting trees. Yes harvesting, just like corn, but a longer growth cycle, Potlatch corp. Has I guess you could say a farm there, 17,000-acre of renewable forest.

My cousin Ron Broadfoot was killed in a logging accident on his 50 th birthday his wife and sons now run this operation.

http://www.forestnet.com/timberwest/archives/March_April_04/nontraditional.htm

 

[QC]

Re: For those who think global warming is an ALGORE joke...

I take only one issue with your analogy PW. The 70 - 90 year rotation cycle is known, understood and real . . .

I am going to add, because I haven't noted it in a while, that I am generally in favor of most "solutions" to Global Warming as they are usually good business in their own right. i.e. more efficient vehicles that pencil out economically, alternative fuels that pencil out economically (rare) and more efficient (and cleaner) sources of electric power generation. I am not in favor of change being forced on me because someone believes something. The law of unintended consequences is waaaaaay too scary.