force 120 tuning question

fab9racing

Seaman Apprentice
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Jun 16, 2008
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I have been playing with the force engine line now for about 3 years i have built several power heads using old stuff and mismatching stuff just to learn before building a new one, i have been into to 2 cycle performance and racing for years, but this seems to be a new challenge for me and i am looking for some common problems and stuff to be aware of, My self personally i have tore about 10 of these 120s apart and notice they all have a detoination problem causing the pistons to lift on the ringlands, i just rebuilt my first new engine and i used all new pistons and bearings and i am now trying to address the detoination problem, one thing i am trying to figure out is the motor runs and idles great as long as i have it on the hose pipe as soon as i put it in the water it starts trying to load up like the exaust is blocking or messing with the flow of the engine, i have noticed that these motors have a habit of busting the reeds out, any help or information as to the problems would be appreciated thank you
 

fab9racing

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Jun 16, 2008
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Re: force 120 tuning question

cumon guys any ideas floating around in the head is something to consider, i have started to studying the recircultive system that they have now it has changed from the earlier years, and i got to thinking if i opened up the exaust paths in the top of the gearbox just a bit it would let the motor run a little freer, i dont know if anyone ever uses a temp gauge to tune the cylinders but i got this temp probe you put between the spark plug and the head and when this thing is on the hose pipe it will run 120deg on every individual cylinder which tells me i think that under these conditions the carbs are pretty much insynic with the idel circut
 

Bigprairie1

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Jun 13, 2007
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2,568
Re: force 120 tuning question

Welcome to the forum F9R.
There are some very knowledgeable guys here that will be able to give you some excellent mechanical/rebuild/tuning feedback on what you've asked about.
As of yet, I haven't had too many issues with my 90/90hp to warrant much wrenching and thus don't bring a lot to the table on mechanical rebuild insight.
However, with respect to your question about reeds some of the more knowledgeable guys said that when Merc started 'budgeting' down the Force line in the mid 90's they switched to a cheaper composite (?) reed that had a tendency to crack and lean out the engine causing failure. Prior to that I think the reeds were better quality and not as prone to engine failure due to this. :eek:
You'll probably get more info than that...just hang in there while everyone has a chance to wade in.
It sounds like you might bring a lot to the forum on the 120's for sure.
What year of motors have you been tinkering with? (Merc-Force or Chrysler-Force)
BP:)
 

fab9racing

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Re: force 120 tuning question

89s to 97s , all the ones i have been into have metal reed plates while some may vary in in slight build they can be retroed to fit with a little massage here and there, i have heard that mercury force just threw motors together for bayliner to make a cheap and competitve price the motors are pretty simple and parts are really interchangeable, and i like the fuel mileage with this little motor, I have a 98 model 120 that i bought with a boat that had a bad reed in it as well, i replaced it the reed but i think it has scared the cyl that it fed a little piece was missing and i couldnt find it no where so i assume it as passed thru the engine prob nicking a cyl a bit , but the motor runs fine it just is a little low on one cyl i have never tore this one down soit is just the way it came from the factory it seems to get double the fuel milage that my mariner 150 with efi gets, now it is no where as powerful as the 150 but it still travels at a comfortable speed .
 

fab9racing

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Jun 16, 2008
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Re: force 120 tuning question

ok update i think i have figured something out force engines where designed and tuned around bayliner boats i took a perfectley good motor off of a bayliner boat and put it on a bass boat and what happend was it moved the exaust deeper into the water i beleve causing more back pressure on the motor thus resulting in poor idle, and this has been giving me night mares well last night i pulled the power head back up and drilled 8 1/2 inch holes in the exaust tube at the top of the tube took it out and it ran flawless this morning i think that the mercury unit used on the later lower units has more exaust flow than the older forces just a hunch
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
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12,004
Re: force 120 tuning question

As far as detonation, ALL outboards do not like to run lean. A lean run will melt a piston faster than you can say sh--. For this reason, you never lean carbs to the point where the engine idles well. Because the low speed circuit is always exposed to manifold vacuum, it always delivers fuel. The high speed jet is sized to compensate for this. So, if you set the low speed needle too lean, the full throttle will also be too lean. Always have the low speed adjusting needle open at least 3/4 turn (preferably 7/8) from lightly seated. When adjusting idle, start at about 1 1/4 turn out.

Force engines are a very old design--started as West Bend, then bought by Chrysler, then AMF Brunswick (Force) , finally Mercury.

The 50 plus year old block design is as simple a crossflow design as you can get and without massive rework will only deliver adequate horsepower. As an entry level engine with a price point, it did its job but don't ask it to race--not any more. In the old days it could be made competitive but now, with short rods, poor head design, poor block packing, and no boost porting, it would be very difficult

Since you have messed with 2 cycle engines, you are probably aware of porting. These engines can be ported (squared, enlarged, and trumpet shaped) and will deliver satisfactory power increases with the following exception: Unless you are going full race with no exhaust restriction, do not port the exhaust on 4 cylinder models. Port bypass side only. Port timing is about 120 degrees open with 90 degree crank throws for an overlap of about 30 degrees. Couple that with the fact that #2 and #3 cylinders fire right next to each other and there is a common exhaust chest, and exhaust porting causes enough blow-back that power will be reduced to less than stock.

You can fully port three cylinder models and on the older Force/Chrysler you could get a 10 hp per cylinder increase.

There is not much you can do with the heads and because of their design, timing is set to 30 degrees BTDC. This was reduced from 32 degrees BTDC in the '80s as a result of poor quality gas available in marinas. So, if you were careful, you could re-time to 32.

Older models benefit from more responsive reeds (Boyeson) but I don't know about newer ones.

Earlier force engines used an exhaust tube that only directed the exhaust into the lower unit. The exhaust tube on the Mercury models is smaller in cross section and may have been an attempt to increase scavenging by tuning the tube (gas mass and velocity versus tube area and length). I never got into that.

If you really wanted to get into it, and had machine shop facilities, you could make special pistons to use longer rods--like from a Rude, Groove the head for O-ring seals instead of a head gasket, bigger rollers on the rod big end, relieve the block for the longer rods then pack it. Change gas flow from bypass to through piston skirt, and isolate cylinder exhaust. Change porting to the maximum size consistant with reliability and ring catching. But---is all that work worth it? Only if you wanted to prove something.

A premium example of this would be the 1984 Chrysler 55-60-65 series engine. It is without a doubt the best engine Chrysler ever designed This thing was a 2 cylinder 2 carb BEAR, and produced at least its rated HP. The engine is so strong and torquey that if you prop it to rev up too quickly, it develops HP too fast and tears out the lower unit gears. I had one on a 14 foot glass runabout and it topped 45 mph with an aluminum stock prop, without any concern as to jacking the engine to acheive maximum speed and without power trim/tilt.

As far as idle, they use a surface gap plug which while touted to reduce fouling is actually more prone to oil fouling than a bent electrode plug. That's part of the reason these engines don't idle well. And when I see someone on the river having trouble with starting his Force, I lend them a clean set of plugs--usually fires right up after that.
 

fab9racing

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Jun 16, 2008
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Re: force 120 tuning question

im not trying to build a racing engine i am just trying to fix some of the defects i have found, it is strange that out of all the motors i have tore apart of this design all seem to have the same common problem, and now that i have quit using used parts to play with and have a new powerhead i am working with i dont want to have to buy new pistons again, this idle thing is the only thing right now that really concerns me, i just didnt know if ppl have experienced idle problems in the past, from the looks of all the reeds that i have i am sure that a force mech has seen this, something else all the pistons i took out had full skirts, the replacments that i got are ported do you think this might have been y i had to drill the exaust tube higher, see i was thinking that because the motor sits deeper in the water on the bass boat than it did onthe bayliner that the water pressure in the exaust tube was heavier thus messing with the flow of the motor, it seems to be doing fine right now however i would like to see it last.
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
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12,004
Re: force 120 tuning question

I'm not saying you need to hot rod them but knowing what you have and what you can do with it leads to better understanding of the engine.

The exhaust tube you mention having drilled higher is actually the idle relief. Its purpose is to reduce back pressure when the engine is sitting low in the water so the idle is more reliable. As you have discovered, bass boats sit even lower in the water and the idle relief usually needs to be raised some for a steady idle. This is not just a Force problem--I have relieved the exhaust on Rudes and Johnsons. Never yet had the opportunity to do it on a Merc though. And believe it or not, I never did it to a Force.

Back to the idle, part of the problem is that the recommended surface gap plugs are stone cold. They tend to foul easily and then, because of the ignition type, while they will run fine at high speed, they will not idle and starting becomes problematical also. See-- The ignition acts very much like a magneto--it produces a far hotter spark at cruise than at idle or start. So, just when you need the spark the most, it's not hot enough. Later Mercury ignition is supposed to be better--I don't know. However, if you have the earlier prestolite /Force ignition, or for that matter any type ignition, do not attempt to substitute bent electrode plugs or hotter plugs to improve idle characteristics--all you will do is melt a nice, circular, 1/4 inch hole in the piston crown. The surface gap plugs are easy enough to clean so when starting or idle get poor, just take them out and clean them. These engines are actually fairly easy on these plugs and they can usually be cleaned and re-used multiple times. A good engine with good plugs will usually start without much cranking at all.

I don't claim to know it all, especially later Force engines, but with Chrysler/ Force engines I have never seen a ported skirt piston on anything other than the Chrysler 55, 60, 65. I don't see where it would hurt anything since the ports are placed to aid gas flow through the bypass and by reducing the skirt area, they would also reduce internal friction.

In some respects, the Force blocks are like the Ford 289, the Chevy 283, and the Chrysler 318: They are a basic block with not much pizazz but if not abused will usually run forever.

Keep 50 to 1 fuel mix in it, be absolutely certain it is not running lean, be certain the water pump impeller is good, Use the correct sized prop, Time it accurately, and it should give no problems--with the exception of the Merc reeds. I don't have experience with them but I understand they are prone to breakage.

I tend to set my carb floats a tad high and the idle needle a little rich. I think it is far less hassle to clean and replace plugs frequently than to occasionally rebuild a block.
 

captquest

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
120
Re: force 120 tuning question

Well this has been an interesting thread for me. I have owned a '98 Force 120 for about two years now. Mr. Acampora's information is great, thank you. I have always had a idle issue and found that cleaning the plugs is the best way to deal with it as well. It seems very picky about fuel (octane, mixture, flow) also. I stumbled across this thread while researching info for my engine.
 
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