FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

[PALAZZO2002]

My starter stopped engaging during a run.<br />The pignon gear was not raising up to the fly wheel, a few light taps on the side of the starter caused the pignon to raise and finally start the motor. we made it back home fine.<br />I sprayed wd40 that same night.<br />The next day the same problem occurred.<br />The pignon gear was not going up and then after it finally raised up, the gear on the starter stopped and the starter shaft kept spinning.<br />The starter unit was pulled out and I took it to a motor repair shop. They could not order the pignon gear alone but they suggested placing the gear in paint thinner for 2 days to allow the rubber material inside the pignon gear to expand and would grab the flywheel correctly in starting the engine.<br />Meanwhile, on the way back from the repair shop I stopped at a marine junk yard where I picked up a used pignon gear which fit just right.<br />After the used part was installed the same problem occured, first the pignon gear did not go up until some tapping was needed and then it did not turn the flywheel when it engaged. I noticed this difference, the center spindel on the starter did not spin when the gear engaged unlike the original part.<br />Now I guess I want to know could it be the battery not powerfull enough since it is a few years old 2-3 years, or can the starter be completely bad. the engine is a 1996 only used since late 97.<br />Now I am waiting for the paint thinner to work on the original pignon gear, should be ready by Monday. <br />Anyone out there have any suggestions or any thought on this type of problem.<br />Any responses are greatly appreciated.

 

[moose211]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

i have a 95 70hp force that on its second starter so it sound like you need one but this time make a ground lead from the starter to the the motors ground you will get more life out of it

 

[91formula]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

My 92/120 force did the same thing, also I would turn the key and there was a slight delay and it turned the started over, seemed alittle slow, had it rebuilt, new bushing were put in, cranked very fast for awhile, then same old time, delay on key, slow turning, so finally it let me sitting, thank god close to a dock, got pulled in and went and bought a new starter, I paid 159.00 dollars, best money I've ever spent, I suggest you do the same, buy it new, I got mine from US Marine, hope this helps, sounds like the bushings!

 

[trollhole]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

I had the exact same problem and have a fix. Cause the pinion gear is getting stuck on shaft where bottom of gear and shaft meet. When they built the starter the didn't leave enough metal on gear and once it starts wearing down it will bind with shaft no matter how much oil you put on it. Used to have to use a screw driver to get it up if I wanted it started. Its like a cork in a bottle. I cork being the shaft and bottle opening being the gear. Resolution. Take gear off a grind down the bottom of the gear about the thickness of a dime. Make sure when you grind it down that you only do it a little at a timeand then test it on the started with you hand.I used a dremil with a grinding wheel a little bit bigger than the shaft. Have not had any problems since and I didn't have to go out a buy another starter.<br />

 

[oldboat1]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Man, I hate starter problems. The bendix gear on my Chris Craft failed a couple of nights ago, and I had to get in with the trolling motor I was lucky to have. <br /><br />Make sure the connections in the starting system are absolutely clean and tight. Remove each wire, beginning at the starter and working back. Use sandpaper or some other abrasive and polish each connection. Don't forget the solenoid connections.<br /><br />If a fully charged battery, good connections, and an essentially rebuilt bendix gear don't solve the problem, you may be due for a starter rebuild. The starter motor might not have enough zip left to fire the starter gear up into the flywheel. Chrysler/Force starters spin fast, and have to be working at their optimum speed in order to do the job.

 

[PALAZZO]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

well, I had the little gear in the paint thinner for 2 days expecting the inside rubber to swell, but, no luck, still feels loose when I twist it.<br />Is it supposed to do that?<br />I purchased a new battery from costo this week, 850 mca, deep cycle/strating battery. <br />reinstalled the starter, the little gear still did not catch the flyweel the middle spindle on the starter keeps spinning. I was thinking about just buying the little gear as a replacement but now I think I am wasting time. I am thinking of contacting Arco mfg to order a new starter.<br />Any better suggestions guys.

 

[PALAZZO2002]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Here is the latest-<br /> I ordered a new starter from Arco in Florida, got it, installed it. Started right up, went out fro a few hours and could not restart again.<br />Finally someone helped me out by using the screwdriver and pushing upt the staretr gear.<br />Made it home, then same thing, did not want to start, the grear was stuck down and would not go up to engage. So basically the gear gets stuck down after it starts. I need to loosen it by holding the upper nut and grab the gear and break it loose. I took it apart and it seems it has burrs at the bottom when it gets stuck. <br />I dont understand why there isnt a fixed washer so that it prevents it from cutting down on the shaft. Also I noticed the starter has more up and down play than my older starter, approximately 1/4" play.<br />Now I am sending this starter back for a replacement, hope the new one is better.<br />Should I have to grease the bendix gear when I receive the new one?

 

[91formula]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

I just got a ARCO starter for my 92/120hp force and it works fine, yes you need to grease it up before you ever fire it up, that might have been your problem with your new starter

 

[PALAZZO2002]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Hi 91formula,<br />which grease you suggest to use and where to get it.<br />Thanks

 

[trollhole]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Hey PALAZZO2002 <br />Did you read my post? Just curious. I'm telling you how to fix it. Trust me it is the only way. I had the same exact problem and since I did that I have not had it hang up on me one time. You can use all the grease you want(tried that first with no advail) but it won't fix the problem. File down the bottom gear until it is flat to the gears. <br /><br />Just my opinion take it with a grain of salt.

 

[PALAZZO2002]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

hey tollhole, I read your post, but the problem I am recently having is with a new starter.<br />I did file the bottom of the new gear a little because i thought it should work but the same thing happened. If it happens again on the 2nd new starter I will follow your suggestion and grind it down more. I still want to put on the right grease before I start the first time.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Grease is not the answer, and can actually cause problems with the bendix (dirt collection). Ask ARCO (good company, good products), and I think they will advise to use only very light oil, if any at all.<br /><br />I have to believe, given a new starter and battery, that you might have a weak or dirty connection somewhere in the starter/ground circuit. An 850cca battery is a good choice, by the way. I use a 900cca model on my inboard.

 

[trollhole]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Okay here's a suggestion that won't cause any hard get a small zip tie and attach it to the shaft between the gear so it won't go down all the way and see if this makes any difference. If not just take the tie off and try something else diff. Just curious though, When you use a screw driver on the gear to pop it up does it feel like it is binding to the shaft. Or are you having to bring the gear all the way up and engage it manually to the flywheel to get it to start. On mine all I had to do was just bring it up a fraction of an inch to get it to work. But as soon as it went up and engaged the flywheel and themotoer stalled it would come back down and bind on the shaft again. Just trying to help trouble shoot<br />

 

[PALAZZO]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

I got the new starter and i noticed the whole shaft moves just a fraction of an inch, which is the way the original old starter was. Thats good newws because the previous new starter had a lot of play, up and down. I did not get a chance to instal it yet because its raining today, probably tomorrow.<br /><br />To trollhole, I appreciate your help, thanks-<br />the problem with the previous new starter was the little gear would jam down.<br />after i loseened a fraction of an inch it would start right up. I saw the little burr on the bottom where it kept jamming. I think the large play of the spindle could have created the hard binding when it came down.<br />But you might have a point about putting something in between the bottom and the gear to prevent from jamming.<br />I will let you guys know if the new starter works good before I attempt any modification.<br />By the way Arco in florida has been very responsive and great service.

 

[SB]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Did ARCO recommend that you grease it before installing it? The reason I ask is that I just put the same ARCO starter on a Sport Jet 90 (Force powerhead). The starter came with some instructions but it didn't mention grease. <br /><br />So far it works great.<br /><br />Scott

 

[PALAZZO]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Well I had a great weekend.<br />I installed the new starter (2nd one).<br />This one had no up/down play just a small fraction.<br />No grease and no modifications needed.<br />The starter worked great so far. When it disingages, the gear is free to go up again without being stuck. <br />I think the key to the problem was the excess play on the first starter.<br />Thanks to all for your tips.<br />Lets Boat!

 

[trollhole]

Re: FORCE ENGINE 90 HP W/STARTER PRBLEM

Just an update. It's been 9 years since I did this mod. This year the starter gear started sticking. Did they same fix again and works like new. Hopefully for another 9 years. lol