Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

[rbh]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Just alittle pot stirring here.
If the origanal donaters of the land for the conservation area left instructions as to how they wanted this land to be used, and the state agreed but is not using it in that means, then the land should revert back to the family that donated it origanally.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

If anyone knows of a case where someone has gotten the state to leave them alone on the property the state wanted, I've not heard of it.

I remember a woman who fought the state, they wanted some of her property for a bike path in exchange for a building permit or something like that, the state kept winning until she went to the supreme court and they slapped the state down. It was in Mass. I think.
Sandra Day O'conner wrote the majority opinion.

Publicity is a potent weapon in politics, especially in these times with congressmen running scared. If something came along that made them look good though...

Me? I'd let them fish and make them a cup of tea.
Doing otherwise proves their dimbulb bureaucrat plan is working and you're taking the bait.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Yeah, that works sometimes. However, the county this place is located has a population of about 2000. The seat of government for that state is a long way from there, and it's unlikely you'd stir up much uproar anywhere it would matter.

I imagine most of the people who live in that county are "mind your own business" sort of folks, too, and are unlikely to rise up in protest about someone else's problem.

I'm just guessing, mind you, but that's my impression of rural Missouri.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

I'd hunt up the other 2 property owners who sold and get their impression on the situation. They may have sold out because of the same BS you are going through right now, maybe not, but it might help talking to others who were in the same situation you are in now.

 

[bouttime007]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

A few things in this thread burned my bacon.

Im sorry in advance to anyone who takes offense to my opinions on some things, as Im sure it will happen. I simply cannot hold my tongue about something that rubs me the wrong way.

First off, getting "squeezed out" of your own property by a entity eyeballing it for their own devices sickens me. Im sure it happens every single day to someone, somewhere, but that doesnt make it right or acceptable. There has to be somewhere you can find some help in this. At some point the madness must end where property owners are mere pawns to those with a fat checkbook and some political influence. If you dont want anyone fishing in your pond then thats your choice, but the bigger picture looks like you will have no choice to keep the damn thing.

Second, these fishermen that showed up face to face with a landowner to ask permission and left apperently with no issue (did they ever even come back?) were following proper etiquette in this. Its a fair assumtion to think they may have had permission (or someone they know did) before with the previous landowner. They sound like ordinary anglers to me. How they turned from that into "yahoos" or "boneheads" or "lowlifes" or "rednecks" or "sorry sobs" who will go litter and destroy everything within a 100 yard radius is beyond me. I myself go about asking permission with a landowner in the same face-to-face manner if I notice a spot that is not public. If the landowner says no, then thats that. I dont go dumping out my trashcans in the water and along the shore if they say I can fish there either. In fact, its the exact opposite. I want that landowner to know Im not going to destroy the place. Even if that means picking up trash I happen to find. Having a painless and enjoyable interaction with a landowner isnt rocket science. A simple "hey just dont leave any trash behind" is a pretty well received request where Im from. As Scipper77 said before, your problem here is not really with the fishermen, it's with the law that gives the fisherman rights to your property.

Whether the law is right or wrong, it is there on the books. Circumventing the law seems ok depending on which spot you are standing on. After all, using a jetboat to dredge out a nice little docking cove that circumvented a law that didnt agree with you was ok right? Sounds like there may be two standards at play here and that really burns my bacon.

Food for thought.....

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

While I don't disagree that fighting the state, when it has decided that it wants your property, is a difficult task, its not impossible. I am personally aware of a summer home in southern Rhode Island, that existed for about 30 + years in the middle of a state wildlife management area.

The deal that was cut over that property, was that it could stay, as long as in remained in ownership by the original family - meaning the owners at the time of the deal, and their direct descendants. The only reason that it is not still in the hands of the owners, is that it was burned down by someone (determined to be arson), while the family was not there. Apparently the deal included a provision that the house had to remain standing and if it didn't, the land had to be turned over to the state.

What I don't know about this particular situation, is what it took to push the state of R.I. back. The house was big and sat on a barrier beach, by itself. It had 360 degree, panoramic views and could only be reached by boat or 4WD. In short, it was worth a lot of money and I believe that the owners were quite wealthy. That may mean that they pulled a lot of strings politically and/or spent a lot of money on lawyers.

The point still remains, however, that it is not impossible to beat bureaucrats in such circumstances. Whether or not the fight is worth the effort, is something that only you can decide.



???

 

[bouttime007]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

One important issue here that pertains to both. Its "MY" property. Property I worked hard to pay for, property I pay massive amounts of taxes every year just to own and use. Yeah, I am a bit old fashioned concerning "MY" property and being told what I use it for. Its one of the reasons I refuse to live in the city. Your mileage may vary...

And I agree with your concerns as I have the same view of my property and how its used. I also dont agree with the state trying to run you off your property. My mileage is about the same as yours.

I know I would like to change the landscape between two of my ponds to make them bigger and better connected, but altering an existing watershed is a big no-no up here. I have to find out down the road just what "maintaining and existing watershed/pond" allows me to do so I can at least improve the area while staying within the guidelines. However far fetched some guidelines are, they are still there to follow.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

I'd consider selling, might as well put it on the market...

For Sale
$8,000,000,000

 

[aspeck]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

There was a case that went to court in our area of central PA where a man (person I know) bought a large farm and converted it into a hunting and fishing lodge. There is a world renowned trout stream that runs through the property and this man wanted to keep people off of it ... for his clients only.

However, the fish in the stream were the "state's fish" and the result of the case was that he could keep the people from ingressing and egressing his property, but he did not own the water or the ground under the water, so people could canoe or wade up or down the stream. However, they were NOT allowed to exit the stream on his property, or to litter, or any other illegal activities.

I imagine it is similar for your state. You CAN keep them off your ground, but you cannot keep them off the pond. Water comes to the pond and goes away from the pond and at some point it leaves your property. If people walk up the stream, or are dropped from an aircraft into your pond, they can fish, but they cannot walk on your dry land without your permission.

If they are on your land, you can call the sheriff's department, or the local law enforcement office to have them removed. If they are in the water, they are on the State's property and there is nothing you can do about it. The law is on the books for streams and rivers, but it applies to any body of water ... because the water gets to your pond somehow.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

There was a case that went to court in our area of central PA where a man (person I know) bought a large farm and converted it into a hunting and fishing lodge. There is a world renowned trout stream that runs through the property and this man wanted to keep people off of it ... for his clients only.

However, the fish in the stream were the "state's fish" and the result of the case was that he could keep the people from ingressing and egressing his property, but he did not own the water or the ground under the water, so people could canoe or wade up or down the stream. However, they were NOT allowed to exit the stream on his property, or to litter, or any other illegal activities.

I imagine it is similar for your state. You CAN keep them off your ground, but you cannot keep them off the pond. Water comes to the pond and goes away from the pond and at some point it leaves your property. If people walk up the stream, or are dropped from an aircraft into your pond, they can fish, but they cannot walk on your dry land without your permission.

If they are on your land, you can call the sheriff's department, or the local law enforcement office to have them removed. If they are in the water, they are on the State's property and there is nothing you can do about it. The law is on the books for streams and rivers, but it applies to any body of water ... because the water gets to your pond somehow.

So Art, tell me this. What happens if a guy was in his boat hunting deer?