Formula 26PC - Possibly seized starboard Merc 4.3L

[PosessionSound26PC]

Hi, I'm new to boating as of last year when I bought a 1989 Formula 26PC cruiser with twin Merc 4.3L engines and Alpha One's. Previous owner had it in fresh water only (5 yrs) as did one before that (maybe 10 years). Guy I bought it from never did any major repairs or maintenance other than take some of the hoses off to look for corrosion in the risers (hope I'm using the right term...) and didn't see anything. Motors ran great for the 8 or so times I used the boat last summer in SALT water. I was religious about flushing after each trip. It sat maybe 3 weeks before I went to winterize it. Got port done (pink antifreeze and fogging oil) and went to start starboard - no go. My memory is not great but I seem to recall hearing the starter click/try and MAYBE a little bit of turn-over but I can't recall for sure. I thought it was the battery since it sat for a while but wouldn't start w/ port running either. Had to leave for Thanksgiving and had the mechanics at the storage lot I use try and winterize it instead. They confirmed that it would not start and told me it was likely the starter and they'd look at it in the spring. I was dumb and didn't think to tell them to pull the plugs and spray fogging oil anyway...

Then Corona came, shop was closed for months. Then it was backed up during summer and I had other boat work to do. Finally got it in the shop a few weeks ago and they tell me starboard is seized up / cant' turn it w/ wrench or breaker bar. Likely a leak in a gasket. Said these need replacing every 3-5 years in salt water - was on my list but was hoping to put it off until this fall... rotten timing.

Quoting $3500-4000 for a re-manufactured engine and another $3500 to install. I'm finding re-manufactured motors of the same vintage (1987-1992) for $2300-$2600 including shipping on Ebay. Their quote seems very high and I'm getting a second one but thought I'd bounce this off of the forum and see if anybody had any bright ideas or comments about the price. I'm in the Puget Sound where nothing is cheap... Thanks.

 

[alldodge]

Howdy

The $3500 to swap a motor is high unless that includes more then just the swap

 

[Scott Danforth]

do the work yourself. its about 3 hours to pull the drive, pull the motor, drop in the new motor, install the drive and align the drive.

 

[PosessionSound26PC]

Yeah, at $100 shop rate that's 35 hours... vs Mr. Danforth's 3 hours.. Unfortunately I don't have a level driveway (house on steep hill) and only a carport so doing the work myself is out unless I can convince my boss to let me use company property, which others have done (we have cranes too...). I didn't realize you have to pull the stern-drive to yank the motor - is that typical? I know there's a spline shaft but assumed you could move the motor forward and clear it...

 

[tpenfield]

First . . . :welcome: to iBoats . . .

Removing the outdrive is easy work, then you can be sure to lift the engine straight up and out. I'm thinking the engine was hydro-locked and then seized up over the winter. The boat mechanic did you no favors, if they did not drain the water from the engine, prior to winter.

$7K for a re-man engine installed seems a bit pricey, but probably not overly so. A shop is not going to fiddle with sourcing used engines to try to save money, so they will tend to use Mercruiser sources, or similar. If you want to save money, then you will need to do your own work, otherwise you pay the price of shop rates, etc.

 

[Grub54891]

Tpenfield is correct. We won't install used parts. If the owner supplies used parts, we put it in writing, no warranty, ant further repairs are on you. There are good used parts out there, but we won't take the responsibility of failure. There are people out there that will try to stick you with, "you installed it wrong" . Not on my watch.

 

[Lou C]

It sounds like the original failure to start was due to water leaking in from the exhaust elbows which is a common failure if not maintained/replaced on time. My experience taught me that anytime a marine inboard with water cooled exhaust does not crank over if you know the battery is good the first thing you should do is pull the spark plugs and crank it over to see if water comes out of the spark plug holes. Yes it can be starter related but if you have water in the cyls you want that out right away.
About the price yes it’s high but one thing to remember especially if dealing with a reman engine; if they get the engine and do the install; any problems the warrantee is on them, if you source the engine and do the install if there is a problem you get to pull it and send it back depending on the terms of their warrantee. Something to think about. Plus there are peripherals that should be replaced when a new engine is installed that add to cost.

 

[alldodge]

I didn't realize you have to pull the stern-drive to yank the motor - is that typical? I know there's a spline shaft but assumed you could move the motor forward and clear it...

Yes drive must be removed first. Upon reinstall the alignment is checked and/or adjusted. The alignment should be check every year, but at most every 3

 

[Lou C]

The drive pull is the easy part as long as it has not been neglected with leaky bellows etc.

 

[PosessionSound26PC]

Thanks guys - I appreciate all the input. If I had joined the forum when I originally bought the boat (or at least let the mechanic have a look at it first), you could have saved me a ton of headache and cash! Learning the hard way... Getting a second quote and also talking to some boat owning co-workers to see if they can give me a hand w/ the swap this winter if I decide to go that route.

 

[Lou C]

Just check into the warrantee terms if you do self install. You might do better to find a local machine shop to build you a long block. You have the older style 4.3s (no balance shaft, pre-vortec, mechanical fuel pump) so might want to stick with that style to keep it simple....

 

[Rick Stephens]

Just check into the warrantee terms if you do self install. You might do better to find a local machine shop to build you a long block. You have the older style 4.3s (no balance shaft, pre-vortec, mechanical fuel pump) so might want to stick with that style to keep it simple....

If you do the job yourself, this is a great consideration. A good AUTOMOTIVE machine shop can build you a motor with a few modified choices in components. Warranty is always some issue there, but they always should stand behind their work. And an automotive shop will not charge you absurd prices because it's for a luxury item like marine shops will. Realize that it absolutely does cost more to work on boats. Parts aren't cheap when they come with 'marine' written on their spec. And labor is always interesting since it is seasonal and most boat owners horribly mistreat their equipment by only putting an average of 10 hours a year on them. Hardest thing possible on machinery and motors.

Best of luck!

Rick

 

[PosessionSound26PC]

Read a bit more - sounds like an alignment tool is used to line up the new/reman motor w/ the gimble housing? Found the tool and procedure seems simple enough. I assume that's the only alignment and that the outdrive just plugs back into the gimble housing? Outdrive looks to be about 90lbs so doesn't need a special lift/tool... I've seen some build a wood dolly on wheels to help out w/ R&R.

Can I bounce a quick list off of you guys just to wrap my head around all the major stuff that's needed? I've read through some of the engine manual but don't have a clear understanding yet...

1. Remove all water hoses, fuel line, power steering lines, electrical connections from motor. Details in manual.
2. Since I'll likely be using my company's property on a weekend (we have cranes and lots of tools ) and will have limited time and space I'm assuming that I will have already pulled the carb & intake, exhaust risers, etc. from the motor. Seems reasonable? Would store these properly until new engine is put in.
3. What do you do w/ the old motor? Recycle? Is it worth anything in a seized state? Guess I can take to auto shop and see if they can free it / if it's salvageable but not really useful to me since the port engine spins the other direction and I will have just bought a reman starboard... right?
4. Pull the outdrive.
5. 4.3 Merc manual says sterndrive needs to be removed prior to engine removal - I assume this is referring to the outdrive portion and not the transom assembly/gimble housing, right? But it doesn't address the drive shaft so I'm confused. When you pull the outdrive, the spline shaft comes out with it but isn't the motor still connected to the gimble via the drive shaft w/ u-joints on it? Seems like that needs disconnecting somewhere...
6. Pull the engine.

Do the reverse for the new engine.

 

[JASinIL2006]

The drive shaft is part of the outdrive. When you pull the drive, the shaft will come with it, and then there is just the stuff on the motor that needs to be disconnected. You can easily pull the drive in 15 minutes (for the first time; after that, it takes about 5) in your driveway, so that could already be done. Many of us have built outdrive stands that we use when we yearly pull the drive to service it and check for problems with bellows, etc.

iboats member achris has a number of great maintenance videos; here is his for pulling the drive:

http://youtu.be/w3O63YTOhn8

Pulling the drive is the easiest part of this whole process. The stuff that is bolted to either side of the transom (e.g, the inner transom shield as well as the stuff on the outside that the outdrive bolts to) stays on the boat when you pull the engine.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Just an FYI - a re-man'd 4.3 from your local engine builder is about $1500-$2000. a re-man'd engine from some of the on-line places can be as high as $2.5k

a new 4.3 for 1996 and newer is about $3.4k

yes, you have to pull the drive because the splined shaft of the outdrive goes thru the gimbal bearing and into the back end of the motor and slides into the coupling.

once you pull the outdrive, you are pulling the shaft out of the coupling and gimbal bearing

step 1 - removed the drive
step 2 - disconnect the battery, throttle cable, shift cable, exhaust hoses, fuel and unplug the main harness.
step 3, unbolt the rear engine mounts
step 4, unbolt the front engine mounts
lift engine out

here is where you can clean the bilge, take care of the rot you will find, etc.

then

drop new engine in
bolt up rear mounts
use alignment tool to adjust front mounts
bolt up front mounts
verify alignment
install drive

 

[alldodge]

1. Yes

2. Since I'll likely be using my company's property on a weekend (we have cranes and lots of tools ) and will have limited time and space I'm assuming that I will have already pulled the carb & intake, exhaust risers, etc. from the motor. Seems reasonable? Would store these properly until new engine is put in.

Yes but depends on the room you have. If there is room, leave the exhaust mans and risers on during removal and have then reinstalled prior to dropping new in

3. What do you do w/ the old motor? Recycle? Is it worth anything in a seized state? Guess I can take to auto shop and see if they can free it / if it's salvageable but not really useful to me since the port engine spins the other direction and I will have just bought a reman starboard... right?

Most junk yards and some machine shops will take them as scrap. If your going to see if it can be freed and fix, do that before buying the next motor. My self I would junk it

5. 4.3 Merc manual says sterndrive needs to be removed prior to engine removal - I assume this is referring to the outdrive portion and not the transom assembly/gimble housing, right? But it doesn't address the drive shaft so I'm confused. When you pull the outdrive, the spline shaft comes out with it but isn't the motor still connected to the gimble via the drive shaft w/ u-joints on it? Seems like that needs disconnecting somewhere..

The drive needs to be pulled first. The "drive shaft" includes the shaft and the U joints. The drive shaft on the drive goes thru the gimbal bearing and into the motor coupler.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Just an FYI - a re-man'd 4.3 from your local engine builder is about $1500-$2000. a re-man'd engine from some of the on-line places can be as high as $2.5k

a new 4.3 for 1996 and newer is about $3.4k

yes, you have to pull the drive because the splined shaft of the outdrive goes thru the gimbal bearing and into the back end of the motor and slides into the coupling.

once you pull the outdrive, you are pulling the shaft out of the coupling and gimbal bearing

step 1 - removed the drive
step 2 - disconnect the battery, throttle cable, shift cable, exhaust hoses, fuel and unplug the main harness.
step 3, unbolt the rear engine mounts
step 4, unbolt the front engine mounts
lift engine out

here is where you can clean the bilge, take care of the rot you will find, etc.

then

drop new engine in
bolt up rear mounts
use alignment tool to adjust front mounts
bolt up front mounts
verify alignment
install drive

Have to add:

step 2 1/2 - pull inlet water hose off of oil cooler under port side of engine
step 2 3/4 - either remove oil lines from steering or remove hydraulic pump from motor and leave inside

 

[PosessionSound26PC]

Ok, so there are apparently at least two different drive shaft configurations out there for the Merc 4.3 and I'm not near my boat or sufficiently knowledgeable about it to say which one I have, but I assume it's the one you're talking about instead of the one shown in the service manual below:

On page 8A-5 through 8A-13 of this service manual (it is not clear which years this applies to but I found others for the 90's versions which I ignored):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l0fOeDisw-Ot78kypOLYe_y3n_wXKMQX/view

which I found here:

https://www.downloadboatmanuals.com/motors/mercury/mercury-mercruiser-service-manual/

it shows a drive shaft w/ u-joints on either end that connects the motor to the gimble housing and instead of the alignment tool being used to align the motor to the gimble housing, it is only used to align the BEARING SUPPORT on the gimble housing (which is removed for drive shaft repair or removal and which sits on spherical bearings) to the gimble housing itself. The motor does not need to be aligned because the drive shaft has u-joints on it and provides misalignment capability. Seems like this is for a bigger/longer boat...

Again, I do not know which arrangement I have but I suspect it is not the one above and is the one you all are talking about, mainly because of the length - I did not notice any long distance between my motors and the transom which would be spanned by a shaft. But if it is the one shown in the link above, I assume I just have to unbolt one or both flanges of that shaft...

Thanks for the input on the cost of a reman engine - that would save lots of money if I can source locally. And I will check out the videos above too.

Any tips on the port engine? Should I pull the plugs and drain the anti-freeze to prevent a similar problem or leave as is for next spring? I fogged it and the mechanic says it still turns manually...

Thanks!

 

[Scott Danforth]

stop looking elsewhere and confusing yourself.

there are not two configurations, there is one.

look at the stickies at the tops of every forum on this site.

starting with this forum

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...ion-for-diyers-an-work-safe-search-version-of

then click on the mercruiser stuff

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...miscellaneous-mercruiser-information?t=329915

then watch the videos on removing an alpha drive

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...gines-outdrives/604924-a-couple-of-new-videos

 

[PosessionSound26PC]

Thanks again Mr. Danforth - that's quite a treasure trove of info. I got the S/N's off my motors this afternoon and I must be a bit thick headed because the year finder charts don't make sense given my numbers. There is a decal on the side of each port-side valve cover which identifies BOTH of my motors as MCM 4.3 LITRE/LX, 262 CID, 205 HP, LH rotation. The S/N's off the little tags near the starters are: C339532 (stbd), C339535 but the mcm_62-94.pdf file that downloads from Brunswick doesn't seem to match those numbers to that model of engine. My boat is a 1989 Formula 26PC so I assume the motors are also 1989 but those S/N's don't match anything from 1987-1989 as far as I can tell, although they seem to on other websites that sell parts. Again, maybe I'm being thickheaded... any help is appreciated. Thank you.