Frustrated by Overheating - Resolved!

ljsweeney

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May 23, 2011
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I've got an '88 Ebbtide with a 5.0L (Chevy) engine mated to a Cobra outdrive. Earlier this year, I toasted the upper unit due to a bad lube fill (yes, I know). I replaced the upper unit, and since then I have been fighting overheating issues.

After the upper was replaced, the temp would spike very high - about 220*, but it then would immediately drop down to 180* to 190*. That is still too high, but it seemed manageable.

I decided to address the temp issues this weekend. I replaced the raw water impeller in the upper, replaced the seals at either end of the water tube between the upper and lower units, and installed a new 160* thermostat. Of course, all new gaskets were used and were properly sealed. After the work was complete, I ran it on muffs long enough to reach operating temp, which stabilized at about 163*.

While I thought that might fix the mild overheating issues I was fighting, now things are actually worse. The temp spikes high (240*) after a small amount of use, and it does not go back down. I had to anchor off for a while to get the temp to normalize, and then the engine would not start. I'm guessing this was due to heat sink causing internal engine components to expand.

After things cooled down (<140*), I was able to start the engine while I was still in the river. I let it idle for a few minutes, and the temp slowly climbed to normal operating temp (165*). It then slowly climbed to 180*, after which the temp gauge needle jumped dramatically towards another overheat. I killed the motor and came in to call it a night and type this out.

While it's still in the water, I'm gonna run it with the inlet hose disconnected from the stat housing to check the flow. I'm guessing that the water flow will be substandard.

My question is this: assuming that the flow of cooling water is compromised, what do I check next? With a new impeller and stat, I thought I was on the correct path. Is there something else in the lower unit that I should be investigating? What am I missing here?

I'm at a bit of a loss here, so I'll entertain any suggestions. Thanks in advance!
 

wire2

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

You may have clogged water passages in the block & heads, like this;
DSC00026.jpg
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Earlier this year, I toasted the upper unit due to a bad lube fill (yes, I know). I replaced the upper unit,

What did you do with the Lower unit after the upper was "toasted"?
 

ljsweeney

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

What did you do with the Lower unit after the upper was "toasted"?

It was a light toasting - the gears did not shred, the input shaft bearings locked - so there was only normal metal debris in the lube. As a result, I reused the lower with the replacement upper.

If the lower was less than 100%, would that cause overheating? I thought the only item that moved water in the outdrive was the impeller in the upper unit. If the lower is suspect, what should I look for? Would there be anything noticeable in the lower unit, in the lube, or between the units?

Thanks again - I'm getting desperate here.
 

ljsweeney

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

***UPDATE***

I tested the raw water flow to the 'stat housing with the boat fully in the river, and there was but a trickle. The throttle had to be goosed just to get anything. Given that the temp held steady while on muffs, I would have to guess that there is not an obstruction, but rather there is something wrong with the new impeller that I installed, or I installed it incorrectly.

My questions are now these: What else should I be looking at besides the impeller? I know that the water is pulled up through the screens on either side of the lower unit, but is there any kind of mechanical pump or mechanism in the lower unit that assists the water draw, or does the impeller do all the work?

At the very least, I know I have to pull the boat and work on the impeller - I'm just wondering what other surprises await me. Again, any advise or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 

Joshua Nichols

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

hmmmmmm.. Check the hose that feeds from the outdrive to the inside of the boat... Maybe it is kinked when you lower the unit.. Who replaced the upper? You or someone else?? Didn't forget to install the tube or the seals on the water tube did ya?
 

ljsweeney

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

hmmmmmm.. Check the hose that feeds from the outdrive to the inside of the boat... Maybe it is kinked when you lower the unit.. Who replaced the upper? You or someone else?? Didn't forget to install the tube or the seals on the water tube did ya?

I'm a little confused here - hose from the OD? There is just a plate with a gasket on it where the OD mates to the transom - do you mean the hose running from the transom to the PS cooler?

I replaced the upper myself.

One of the reasons for pulling the OD again was because I thought that I screwed up the alignment of the water tube, which could have been causing the mild overheat condition I was trying to resolve. So when I broke apart the upper and lower units this time, I replaced both seals on the water tube, visually inspected the tube for cracks, and installed a new guide. I would be surprised if this was a water tube issue.

I plan on 'bubble testing' the small flow of raw water I'm currently getting when the weather cooperates. That should tell me if I have any air gaps in the system. I was also told to check the pump housing - but I really don't know what that means. Is that the round housing behind the impeller - if so, do you know how I should check it?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm desperate to resolve this issue by Labor Day. Thanks!
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

It was a light toasting - the gears did not shred, the input shaft bearings locked - so there was only normal metal debris in the lube. As a result, I reused the lower with the replacement upper.

If the lower was less than 100%, would that cause overheating? I thought the only item that moved water in the outdrive was the impeller in the upper unit. If the lower is suspect, what should I look for? Would there be anything noticeable in the lower unit, in the lube, or between the units?

Thanks again - I'm getting desperate here.

The outdrive wouldn't have much to do with overheating unless the impeller shaft broke. (then it wouldn't turn at all)

I was referring to the possible contamination of your lower unit oil (even though it "looked" ok) There is still a risk. You'll find out in a year or so I guess...


Your "trickle" is possibly due to blockage between the impeller and the PS cooler (or a plugged cooler)

The pump output has to make it though a hose in the transom mount, then through the transom to the PS cooler and onto the heat exchanger (if closed cooled) or T-stat housing.


Sometimes impeller fragments or other debris gets lodged in the path.

Other problems like sucking air can cause reduction in the flow of cooling water from the pump.

Installing a clear vinyl hose from the PS cooler to the t-stat housing and putting the boat in the water (not using a flush adapter) THEN running it can identify problems like this.
 

ljsweeney

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

The outdrive wouldn't have much to do with overheating unless the impeller shaft broke. (then it wouldn't turn at all)

I was referring to the possible contamination of your lower unit oil (even though it "looked" ok) There is still a risk. You'll find out in a year or so I guess...


Your "trickle" is possibly due to blockage between the impeller and the PS cooler (or a plugged cooler)

The pump output has to make it though a hose in the transom mount, then through the transom to the PS cooler and onto the heat exchanger (if closed cooled) or T-stat housing.


Sometimes impeller fragments or other debris gets lodged in the path.

Other problems like sucking air can cause reduction in the flow of cooling water from the pump.

Installing a clear vinyl hose from the PS cooler to the t-stat housing and putting the boat in the water (not using a flush adapter) THEN running it can identify problems like this.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I plan on firing up a clear hose test while she's still in the water - weather cooperating, that is. Would you happen to know the diameter of that hose (between the PS cooler and the 'stat housing) off the top of your head? That would save me from having to pull it before hitting the hardware store.

You bring up an interesting point about a possible blockage. The impeller I just replaced looked almost like new - no vanes missing or anything. However, I did not pull the impeller housing from the old (toasty) upper - I need to check that. Also, as I loosened the six nuts holding the outdrive, water did leak out of the port side, where the water intake tube goes through the transom (I don't recall if it did that the first time I pulled the OD). If the water was sitting in the tube due to a blockage, that might explain it.

After I perform the clear hose test, I plan on pulling 'er out of the river, dropping the OD (again). and backflushing from the 'stat housing. I'm hoping I don't have to become a contortionist and have to pull the hose from the PS cooler (that's way back behind everything) - but I guess that might be necessary.

I know I'm taking a chance running the old lower after the upper died. It was all I could do to convince the wife that buying a replacement upper was the right move. Of course now she's all into boating and will green light a SEI conversion if the lower dies - whatever. I wish I would have known that before.

I'll post up my results after the testing.
 

Joshua Nichols

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

There is a hose.. that runs up to another line... Looks like from what you said you have been checking aound there pretty good..

There is also a tube between the upper and the lower.. Seals at both ends.. Since you replaced all that stuff I would say it's not the issue too..

Might just be some blockage... I would Take off the impeller Since it's pretty easy.. Got a air compressor? Try and see which end has the bockage or the problem.. Should be easy to find. with the line from the outdrive off..

Still don't find the issue? I would test for the pump sucking air the same way..

Don't blow too hard or anything
 

ljsweeney

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Might just be some blockage... I would Take off the impeller Since it's pretty easy.. Got a air compressor? Try and see which end has the bockage or the problem.. Should be easy to find. with the line from the outdrive off..

Still don't find the issue? I would test for the pump sucking air the same way..

Don't blow too hard or anything

You may be on to something. I recall that when I removed the impeller (I did so with the OD still mounted), that the water channel on the left side had standing water in it, and the channel itself was dirty and kind of slimy. The right channel was clean and had no water in it. That would be indicative of a water flow/blockage issue on the left, would it not?

I have two questions:

1) Where would I check for a blockage if only one side of the water passage shows evidence of a blockage, and does anyone know where I can find a water flow schematic that shows the water path through the OD?

2) Has anyone ever seen/heard of the water intake screen in the lower unit being so clogged with crap that the engine overheats? I boat exclusively on a mud-bottom river, so the water is very silty.

I'm starting to get annoyed with this issue, and am very close to taking 'er to the shop. I hope I don't have to.
 

davidharts

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

i had the same problem and after changing almost everything,
my step father told me to change the radiator cap and the problem
was solved.
 

ljsweeney

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Messages
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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

i had the same problem and after changing almost everything,
my step father told me to change the radiator cap and the problem
was solved.

Thanks for the suggestion, but raw water cooling = no radiator.
 

Lou C

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

You may be on to something. I recall that when I removed the impeller (I did so with the OD still mounted), that the water channel on the left side had standing water in it, and the channel itself was dirty and kind of slimy. The right channel was clean and had no water in it. That would be indicative of a water flow/blockage issue on the left, would it not?

I have two questions:

1) Where would I check for a blockage if only one side of the water passage shows evidence of a blockage, and does anyone know where I can find a water flow schematic that shows the water path through the OD?

2) Has anyone ever seen/heard of the water intake screen in the lower unit being so clogged with crap that the engine overheats? I boat exclusively on a mud-bottom river, so the water is very silty.

I'm starting to get annoyed with this issue, and am very close to taking 'er to the shop. I hope I don't have to.


to answer your earlier question, if you want to do the clear hose test, you need about 4-6" of 1" inside diameter reinforced clear hose, and a 1" outside diameter coupler, I put the end of the clear hose on the fitting on the thermo housing, with a hose clamp, slid one end of the 1" coupler into the the clear hose and the other end into the OE raw water intake hose, clamped on both ends. Works great, you can see everything going on in there. You can also do the same with the manifold hoses (3/4 " inside diameter, set it up the same way) and this will tell you if the head gaskets are leaking combustion gas into the cooling water. You have to run the boat in the water on plane (need 2 people to do it safely obviously) for the test to tell you anything.

The water intake screen can certainly get clogged, mine was almost completely covered with barnacles (boat is moored in salt water).
When you take off the impeller, you will see the 2 water passages in the adapter housing. The one on the right, is where water comes UP from the water intakes, and you can test for blockage by hooking your hose and muffs up, turn on the water and hold the muffs tightly over the water intakes. You should see good flow out of the right side passage. The left side one sends water up through the raw water intake hose to the thermo housing. You can test this for blockage by removing the raw water intake hose at the thermo housing, shoving a garden hose into it, clamp it so it doesn't leak water and turn on the water. There should be a good flow out of the left side water passage. Let us know what you find.....
 

Joshua Nichols

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

and you can test for blockage by hooking your hose and muffs up, turn on the water and hold the muffs tightly over the water intakes. You should see good flow out of the right side passage. The left side one sends water up through the raw water intake hose to the thermo housing. You can test this for blockage by removing the raw water intake hose at the thermo housing, shoving a garden hose into it, clamp it so it doesn't leak water and turn on the water. There should be a good flow out of the left side water passage. Let us know what you find.....

Dang Lou.. That's a good test for blockage...
Forum is lucky to have you
 

Lou C

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

thanx for the kind words, I have an OE OMC shop manual so I have the diagrams, etc.
I looked into this because of a mild overheat condtion but it was really due to the barnacles growing over the water intakes. This is after only 3 months in the water, even after a liberal 2-3 coats ofTrilux antifouling for aluminum.....
 

HCMQA

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

my money is on a blocked PS cooler.

When the old upper toasted the impeller prolly toasted too.

the water standing/leaking out when od was separated is a huge clue.
 

Shade Tree boy

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Aug 22, 2011
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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

First check your water flow at the thermostat housing. Pull the hose that connects the sea water pump to the thermostat housing. Have a friend hold the top of the hose below the top of the engine and start the motor. You should observe a water column of 2 to 4 inches shooting out of the hose. If you don't then you're problem likey lies with the sea water pump assembly or something in the water intake areas. If you pass this test then I would check the exhaust risers for blockage. Sometimes old impeller pieces can break off as well as old gasket materials and lodge in the risers. A continuous water flow through the engine should be observed. Hope that helps.
 

Randy J

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

hcm has good idea check power steering cooler.
 

ljsweeney

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Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

Re: Frustrated by Overheating - Suggestions Needed

I tested intake flow by removing the short hose from in between the PS cooler and the through-transom water intake pipe. I saw the same results as when I removed the raw water intake hose from the 'stat housing - no flow.

I also pulled the impeller from the broken upper, and it was intact.

Whatever this issue is, it is at the transom or in the OD.

I'm going to try the flow tests that Lou outlined next.

Thanks again to all who have chimed in on my issue.
 
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