Fuel Injection

Status
Not open for further replies.

degree

Seaman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
65
Has anyone converted a carbureted engine to EFI (mercruiser, in this case)?
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Fuel Injection

It must be a marine certified system. Automotive systems can't be used in a marine engine, not only can't you use the O2 sensor, but the fuel mapping, timing and everything else for that matter, is way off.
 

96lt4c4

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
110
Re: Fuel Injection

It must be a marine certified system. Automotive systems can't be used in a marine engine, not only can't you use the O2 sensor, but the fuel mapping, timing and everything else for that matter, is way off.


If you know how to tune, and have the right equipment you can. I have done it. I was just getting ready to start a new post on this.

I converted my 305 to MPFI fuel injection. I used an Eldelbrock MPFI intake that I ran on my truck for a while. I built a 383 for my truck and the MPFI injectors would not feed the motor so I went to a BB TBI. I just never got rid of the MPFI intake. I bought my boat 2 years ago, this past fall I decided to get rid of the 2 barrel Rochester, since it needed a rebuild. When I pulled the intake off I noticed the little 305 was a roller block. One thing led to another and I ended up pulling the heads, ported them, valve job, machined for screw in studs, new valve springs, and cut the valve guides down for the extra lift from the LT4 roller cam that I was going to install. I converted the motor over to full roller (some more parts I had lying around). The LT4 cam has a smooth idle with little overlap so water reversion is not a problem. Since the intake is aluminum I coated the coolant passage with Por 15 to stop corrosion.

I am using an ECM out of a 94-95 Chevy truck or Astro van part number 16197427. This is the same ECM that is in my 94 full size Blazer. I am very familiar with this ECM ands its a good choice for this project since it can be used to run a TBI or a MPFI setup. The distributor is a GM small cap EFI distributor that was in many gm vehicles in the late 80's early 90's. For tuning this setup I have disabled the electronic transmission, EGR, 02 sensor, Vehicle speed sensor...etc. I am only using the basics to run the engine, MAP sensor, IAC, Temp sensor, and TPS. The ECM is also set to stay in open loop all the time which means it will not look for the 02 sensor. I did get a little crafty with Idea of using a O2 sensor. I made a plate that bolts to where the EGR valve used to be, tapped it out and put the 02 sensor on the exhaust side of the plate. I may try to run it in closed loop this summer when know everything else is right. I can also use the same port to check my AFR with my wide band 02 sensor, to make sure I am not going lean at WOT. You do have to be very careful with timing and fuel since a boat runs high RPM all the time you could very easily burn a piston up if you went lean. I have all my fuel tables a little on the rich side, with about 31* total timing advance.

The tuning software I use is free and is called Tuner Pro Rt. I also use it to data-log all the engine info threw the factory GM ALDL diagnostic port. I can view everything the engine is doing on my laptop.

There is also TunerCat but its not free nor as flexible as Tuner Pro



CIMG1435.jpg


CIMG1436.jpg


CIMG1443.jpg


CIMG1427.jpg


CIMG1419.jpg


CIMG1433.jpg


Oh, and the boat runs very well, it fires right up every time you turn the key. I have only run it in the driveway with my hose hooked to it. Its been to cold to take it out and the water pump is out of my lower unit.
 
Last edited:

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Fuel Injection

You missed one important aspect of the whole thing.
None of it is Coast Guard certified for marine use.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Fuel Injection

The distributor is a GM small cap EFI distributor that was in many gm vehicles in the late 80's early 90's.:eek: :eek:


So your just useing what ever AUTO electric parts you want


Tommays
 

96lt4c4

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
110
Re: Fuel Injection

You missed one important aspect of the whole thing.
None of it is Coast Guard certified for marine use.

I am not worried about it. In my eyes this is a way more efficient, more reliable, and a lot safer than the carb setup that was on there before. When I get pulled over by the Coast Guard and get a citation for my fuel injected engine then I might care.:cool:
 

96lt4c4

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
110
Re: Fuel Injection

The distributor is a GM small cap EFI distributor that was in many gm vehicles in the late 80's early 90's.:eek: :eek:


So your just useing what ever AUTO electric parts you want


Tommays

The distributor is not that different then the Mercruiser distributor I took out. It is a sealed unit with a magnetic pickup and an electronic module. It uses a remote coil mounted on the intake just like the Merc unit. I dont see any problem with it.
 
Last edited:

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Fuel Injection

I am not worried about it. In my eyes this is a way more efficient, more reliable, and a lot safer than the carb setup that was on there before. When I get pulled over by the Coast Guard and get a citation for my fuel injected engine then I might care.:cool:

Ahhhh, good another know it all that could care less about anyone else or CG safety laws.
If it should blow up and someone gets killed and they find it has something to do with your homemade fuel injection that isn't CG certified. Then your insurance isn't going to pay anything, and someone else is stuck with the problem.
 

96lt4c4

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
110
Re: Fuel Injection

Ahhhh, good another know it all that could care less about anyone else or CG safety laws.
If it should blow up and someone gets killed and they find it has something to do with your homemade fuel injection that isn't CG certified. Then your insurance isn't going to pay anything, and someone else is stuck with the problem.

Sorry, for posting my homemade fuel injection setup. I thought that someone might benefit from it.

When it blows up I will let you know.......dont expect to hear from me...:mad:
 

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,321
Re: Fuel Injection

aside from all the safety... i think the CG will pull your registration, and on top of that give you a citation. It would be a shame to put that much time/money into something that may well end up having to come out.
 

TilliamWe

Banned
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: Fuel Injection

Has anyone converted a carbureted engine to EFI (mercruiser, in this case)?

I have not, but there are complete marine kits from Holley out there to do it right and be compliant with the CG regs. Best of luck to you.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Fuel Injection

who Knows.
maybe you can set an engine box altitude record.
non marine certified fuel lines,non marine VENTED ign proof dist.
most likly the same with the rest.
doesnt happen often, in 30 some odd years I have seen 10 or so engine boxs blow off and one complete seperation of the upper deck from the lower.
in every case it was from installing parts that were either non compliant or installed not in compliance.
while its very ingenous its also a bit foolhardy. you may wish to double check with your insurance agent to make sure its still covered with all the modifications.
as it stands now the product is considered modified for racing and most policies have particular wording about modifying.
just a heads up.
when it says IGN proof, it has noting to do with distributer ign, its all about it wont or cant be a source of ign for any fuel vapors in event of any line,fitting or regulator leakage.
ever see a dist cap blow off due to fuel vapors in the crankcase? its rather funny in a car,not so much in a boat.
 

Mkos1980

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
640
Re: Fuel Injection

96.. I see your on this forum too.

Don,

From what he is using, can you describe what would be CG approved and what is not? What makes it certified besides the fancy CG number. I can see certifications for starters, aircleaners and alternators, but for weather tight sealed sensors I see nothing wrong. Can you list specifically how merc makes their GM sensors CG approved? As for the distributer, I have the same 87-95 small cap distributor and coil as merc used. Its accually from a merc motor. The part numbers on the distributer are the same as GM. Ignition module and all. ONLY differance I see is a gasketed cap. Besides that, I cant see anything else differant.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Fuel Injection

Sorry, for posting my homemade fuel injection setup. I thought that someone might benefit from it.

When it blows up I will let you know.......dont expect to hear from me...:mad:

I don't expect to hear from you, just read about it in the newspaper or here in the Stupid Human Tricks While Boating/Fishing forum.


Don,
From what he is using, can you describe what would be CG approved and what is not?

Nope, not my job.

What makes it certified besides the fancy CG number.

Lots of testing. Fire rating, explosion ratings, vibration test, just to name a few. Just to get that fancy CG certification number.

In case no one has noticed, lawyers make it a habit of checking things like certifications in boating accidents, fires and explosions.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Fuel Injection

if you used the merc EST distributer with just a module change the distributer is still VENTED and gasketed and USCG compliant. its the fuel system and fuel return system that most likly is not.(small cap,big cap,black or green makes no sense nor idendifies anything)
all fuel hoses used under deck and in engine boxes have strict mounting,fuel permeability and fire resistance standards set up by the USCG and the ABYC.
so as long as all your components and mounting and installation procedure meet the requirements of the USCG and the ABYC then its still compliant.
simple things like when the key is on and engine off the electric fuel pump CANNOT run continuously.
you can find all the documents from the USCG nd ABYC on the net, warning:it can make for some confusing reading.
must have been written by a govt lawyer :)
 

96lt4c4

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
110
Re: Fuel Injection

Well I will tell you right now that I do not have any fuel leaks. Because I have checked, and double checked.

The boat starts with a blip of the key, it could not start any quicker. I will guarantee that it starts faster than any boat running the piece of crap 2 barrel that needs to be pumped, dumping raw fuel down into the intake. That would cause way more fuel vapors in the engine compartment than the MPFI that I have.

So that would mean no fuel vapors in the engine compartment !

You guys can bash it all you want for not being CG certified, I am going to run it anyway :p

Oh, and the Holley setup is garbage...ask anyone that has used it...they end up on Ebay.
 

Robj

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
1,441
Re: Fuel Injection

96 that looks like some fine work that you did. The people here do not mean to bash you, but rather point out one serious liability that you have opened yourself up to. If you were able to figure out how to do the swap, then you could also figure out what changes you would have to make for it to meet CG specs. It would certainly be worthwhile looking into.

Have a great day,

Rob.
 

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,321
Re: Fuel Injection

96....
If your boat was docked next to mine at the slip. And yours blew up, and took mine with it. Your insurance will not pay for my boat seeing as how your engine is not approved. So will you pay for my boat?
 

superpop

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
869
Re: Fuel Injection

Actually his liability insurance would pay for your boat, and if not your comprehensive insurance would pay for it. You guys are a bunch of nervous nellies.
 

MikDee

Banned
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
4,745
Re: Fuel Injection

96, Aside from the valid notes of caution posted here, that I agree with, I think you're very creative, Nice Work!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top