G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

ross patti · Jul 25, 2005

I looked up some recent posts and saw you two helping out with link/synch issues. I have a 1976 35hp Johnson{G Dane you solved my condenser problem about 9 months ago}I raised the motor so the AV plate is 1/2 " above the low point of keel.The motor don't reach it's full speed as the last 20 % of the travel in the throttle lever don't alter the revs or speed a bit. So I tried my version of the link/synch and reduced top speed by 25 %. Now I need some real help from anyone qualified. Thanks

mjash · Jul 25, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Are the throttles opening all the way. If they are, did you mess with timing.

ross patti · Jul 25, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Hey,Mark.. The throttle valve {butterfly } in the carby only opens a little less than 45degrees. That is a part of my problem.I cannot see how the cam roller can ever be pushed to the position it needs to be, to open the throttle valve fully. When I push the control lever to full position,the roller is way over the other side of the cam,but to open the valve to flat out ,you need to pull the roller down about 3/4". The cam will never do it . I didn't mess with the timing. I think I just need a simple explanation of the L & S procedure...EG; Starting the cable adjustment explanation as if it was installation and initial set up. Then,with the cable set right,the cam adjustment . I have an OEM manual,But I think it assumes That I know a lot more than I do. I don't have a tacho yet,but It's coming soon. Thanks for the help...

mjash · Jul 26, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Rosco...I was having the same problem. Unhook both control cables. Follow link and sync procedures. With engine in idle position(makesure you are hitting the low idle stop) adjust the trunion nuts on the cables so they fit the shift and throttle levers. If after that you still dont hit the WOT stop, you are not getting enough travel out of your cables. I had 2 problems with mine. #1 my cables were stiff and would not move freely. #2 this caused a groove inside my control box in the nylon shift assy. After replacing the shift assy($40) and the cables($60)Everything works great. Not only am I getting full throttle, but all around response is better through the whole power band. Hope this helps. As long as both throttles are completely closed @ idle and completley open at WOT you should be good to go. Its not too hard to do this...My problem was explaining myself correctly on this board. Kept getting the redo link and sync answer.

lark2004 · Jul 26, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

this mark (more likely a cross on yours) must line up with the casting below it. With these lined up, make sure that the throttle is closed. It must start to open as soon as you advance the timing from this point.

The last 1/4 of the throttles travle won't move the timing, but it will open the butterfly all the way

G DANE · Jul 26, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Hi Again Rosco - this will be an easy fix. 1: Set the lenght of the throttle arm between roller and carb throttle lever so that throttle starts to turn EXACTLY when roller is between the two marks om cam. Be very carefull with that, as motor will start to shoot and sneeze if throttle opens too early. 2: with motor stopped, turn throttle all the way up, by remote or tiller or what you have. Check under flywheel that armature plate is turned all the way against the rubber stop sitting at side bracket or starter bracket, this rubber stop screw controlls maximum spark advance at WOT. On the other side of stator there is a stainless rod connecting the throttle advance lever coming from gear under lower pan shaft to cam follower lever, just above carb. When you open the last 20 % up this rod should push bracket back and open throttle to horizontal. ( be aware on some carbs it can open a bit past horizontal and actually slow a bit down again ) On the advance lever there is a little nylon thingue rod slides through, on carb side of it a little metal stop with a screw in it. Loosen screw and adjust so your throttle opens all up. Then you can feel the last throttle too. Ask again if I wasnt clear enough. WOT timing maybe should be checked with a timing gun too, maybe there is a little more power there too.

ross patti · Jul 26, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Mark,Lark and Dane... Thankyou so much for the help.The manuals {even OEM}gloss over some important points....like where to start your lever,where to set the trunion,how much cable to pull thru,etc etc. BUT..today I went down the river with my tools,and lots of time.Using the old trial & error method,I think I've got the basics working fine. Got my speed back up to 42kph.FYI,before raising the motor on the transom,I could only get 35kph ,wringing it's neck.That's a 20 % increase in top speed just by lifting the motor. The exciting part will be to do the finer adjustments you guys have pointed me to.....and THEN see how fast we go. I know speed isn't everything,but the faster we go,the cooler we look,and the longer we fish. Your straightforward explanations will let me get the most out of this old girl. Can't wait to get back out there tomorrow with tools and a copy of your advice. Thanks again to you all,I'll post again after I put your tips into practise . Hey,lark...That's a serious project you've got there.Is it finished yet ?? Mine is a 30 year old aluminium open runabout...No dings,2 pak paint,impeccable floor,stainless this and that..etc,etc.Old boats done up well still pull comments and glances at the ramp.I'd much rather look at the effort put into a good restoration like ours,than a shiny showroom churnout !

lark2004 · Jul 27, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

heck no. It's probably about two years off being in the water. Money's too tight to really be able to sink much into it at any one time. I reckon about $1000 will get me everything I need to finish her off. The new transom and floor are sitting in the garage waiting for me glass it all in.

ross patti · Jul 27, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

lark,you heller dude...when it comes to boats,all sentences starting with "I reckon about $?" are laced with danger. Trouble is,once you finish it then you gotta improve it.In doing that,something will break,and you gotta fix it .And so on.BUT...it's all good. Extra thanks for posting your photo.Mine is a little different.It has the two marks on the cam,and you line up the centre of the roller between them. When I push the control lever forward,the throttle valve doesn't start to open till the roller is well past the marks {about 1/2"}.G Dane suggested to set the length of the throttle arm.As long as I can keep the roller touching the cam,his tip should do the job.Because the valve doesn't open till the lever has travelled a bit,nothing really happens for the first 20 % of it's forward movement.This can't be good. G Dane,how have you been keeping ?Thanks for the response.The" throttle arm " is the thin rod going from the roller assembly to the throttle valve shaft,yes? To adjust the length,I can pull it up through the nylon fitting at the top ? If this works,then I am 95 % done. I didn't get to do the super fine adjustments today on the water.I did a fair bit of travelling...Stopping,then idling,then flat stick etc,etc. Had plenty of fuel,didn't I ?? Yeah,Crap.Limped home on fumes.Limped and then changed my name to Rowain. Can't wait to do the fiddlin' and crank this baby up to peak. Thanks again

G DANE · Jul 27, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Roscoe I will try to explain a bit better. The roller only opens throttle around 75 %. It is essential that throttle starts to open when roller is right between marks. As cam only pushes one way you can adjust linck to take up all slack and open right there. There are 2 different types of link and adjustment, depending of model/year. One that has a small bracket with a screw in it on middle of arm between roller bracket and throttle shaft lever. Loosen the screw and extend the arm untill it opens right where you want. The other type has kind of a double lever at end of throttle shaft. When you loosen the screw in it you can turn the outher lever in position compared to inner that is riveted to throttle shaft. Now make sure your throttle butterfly starts to open when rollers is centered between marks. When you check, advance trottle to the rollerbetweenmarkspoint and only look af throttle shaft end at right side of carb body. See when it starts to moove ?? Is must be within a couple of mm's later than or right at the ideeal point. Next. On right side of your motor the throttle advance shaft comes up from under cowling aside of motor, ending with a lever at top, connected to a linck to stator plate. On top of this lever there is a small nylon fitting with a long thin rod sliding thru. The other end of the long rod is attached to the cam roller bracket. The meaning of this is that the rod should lift roller from cam and open throttle all the way up when you really want to fly. This is adjusted by moving a small metal adjuster that sits on rod just next to the nylon adapter. Do following: Turn throttle all the way up, so the lever on top of the throttle advance shaft on right side of motor rests against the casted stop on block, compressing the spring clip on the linck to stator plate. Move the little clip with screw in untill the long rod pushes roller enough away from cam to open throttle butterfly horizontally. You can see it by watching the little pin in throttle shaft on right side of carb. Get it ?? I am running out of english to explain better. Edit: When I say right, its seen from the front / carb end of motor.

ross patti · Jul 28, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

G'day,Dane.. I've got a 1976 35hp Johnson..if that helps. The manual tells me to adjust the cam by the two hex heads on top of the cam.It tells me to loosen them for adjustment.WRONG.These just fix the cam to the armature. At the bottom of the link rod {between the throttle arm and the cam follower},there is a screw that goes into a slotted hole that gives you a little adjustment of the roller.It gives you ability to move roller in or out about 1/4". The link itself cannot be adjusted because it's ends turn inward 90 degrees in the nylon pivots. The manual tells me to have the roller touching the cam,when it is still between the marks.Then,as the throttle is advanced,the butterfly should open as soon as the roller passes the marks. When I move my control lever forward,it moves the roller to about 5/8" to the left of the marks before the butterfly starts to move.The lever is now about 20 % forward from dead idle .My cable adjusting wheel has all the threaded section wound in {threaded part is all before the trunion wheel,no thread is past the wheel }. I've got to pull the motor end of the throttle cable off to adjust it.I imagine I can pull the cable thru at that end ?Then I can screw the wheel to halfway along the thread so I've got some adjustment. I have got the concept of the throttle control rod adjustment,and have got it set pretty good. Thanks for the explanation,I'll try the adjustments tomorrow.I really only have to get the throttle opening as it leaves the marks. That should be relatively easy.HA HA. Thanks for the help,I'll let you know how I go....

ross patti · Jul 28, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Hi guys, Finally worked this problem out. Dane,my motor has the first type of cam adjustment you described. With a bit of tweaking here & there,I've got it set right.Roller touching the cam.Movement in the throttle valve as soon as the roller passes the marks.No more ineffective travel in the control lever.Wide Open Throttle is exactly where it should be. Big THANKYOU to Mark A64 and lark 2004 for your advice. I'll keep an eye out for you on the forum and follow your drama's. Dane,you've done it again.This is the sort of thing you need to be shown once.Somehow,from God knows how many thousand miles away,you worked it out. More importantly,you described it in concise language that was simple to understand. Thanks again G Dane,I'm taking it for a test / fishing trip on Sunday. I'll let you know how I go . Many thanks to all of you once more !!!

ross patti · Jul 30, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

G'day,guys... Took it out for a fish today,the motor went fine.Had a mate and a heap of gear with me and didn't check speed,but it was good. The latest trouble is a cooked impeller{I think}. I always check the telltale before getting underway,and it was fine.I checked it again about 10mins.later ,it's o.k. Then about 5mins later,I noticed a drop in power.Thinking it may be a cable I was working on maybe needing re-tightening,I let it go.After about 30-40secs,I turned around to look at the motor.Good thing ,too.The pee-hole was steaming,not peeing.The mid section above waterline was screaming hot. I shut it down immediately and drifted to a likely looking spot and had a fish.We got a tow back to the ramp,so I didn't have to try and start it.I guess I'll check the impeller & water pump , and go from there. I just hope I didn't fry the thing !!! Back to the tools,All input from you guys is appreciated. Thanks again...

lark2004 · Jul 31, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

You might be ok. What rpm's were you turning at the time? Have you done a compression test yet?

G DANE · Jul 31, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Hi Rosco Unless it was heated to the point where the paint miscoloured on the cylinder head and sides of block, you'r probably OK. It didnt seize or stop at iddle, didnt it. Check the impeller and waterpump, probably that route, if it wasnt done recently. Your motor has a thermostat, too, located under cylinder head water jacket cover, top end. Be carefull with bolts, if you want to remove and check thermostat operation in a cofee cup with boiling water. On a 76 it usually means a couple of broken 1/2" bolts, but heating them, starting with a small rap with a hammer and turning a little back and forth will give you better chances. Good luck pal.

G DANE · Jul 31, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Some says its an old motor, but I think 29 years is in the best age.

ross patti · Aug 1, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Well,lark,...I reckon I was doing about 4000rpm{ear,not tacho}.I have not checked the compression yet,will do soon. Dane...I have this sickening feeling when you say the powerhead paint ain't discoloured.Unfortunately,on the head itself,yes it is discoloured. I pulled the lower unit and the impeller,housing and pump looked fine.I checked the plugs,and apart from a little sticky residue on their threads,the electrodes were fine. After seeing the impeller,etc looked O.K,I guessed either water tube or thermostat.I checked the tube leading to the tell-tale,and it looked in place. How can I tell if it is definitely effed?? When I stopped and realised it was overheating yesterday,I pulled the lever back and it stopped.I didn't try to start it again. I think I've killed it. I don't feel well.The next two bourbons won't fix it.But the 6 after that should do the trick !! Please tell me if there is a way to tell if it's gone or not. Thanks again...

G DANE · Aug 1, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Dont give up yet, Ive seen some with paint started chipping from heat, that took no damage. If compression is fine, you are too. Try to start it.

ross patti · Aug 2, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Dane,lark,et al... Today was a sad day.I did the compression. It used to be 122psi in each,now it's 65-70psi. It actually started after a little coaxing,and ran reasonably well,all things considered ! I stuck the hose up the water tube in the leg,and the pisser and the exhaust holes both spouted water freely. But the drop in compression is fatal,isn't it ? I am resigned to administering the last rites . And I still don't feel well. At the risk of clutching at straws,is it possible for the heat to have "melted"the carbon,etc around the rings to make it a sticky goop,rather than a caked on goop ?? thanks guys...

G DANE · Aug 2, 2005

Re: G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Hi again Rosco If you have equal compression, I think cylinders are fine, most likely the lower would have been scored if it locked up from heat expansion. What what happens in many cases when overheating is that headgasket blows between cylinders, and head warps a little. Both are things you can correct yourselves. I will look up an old thread about this and post you the link. ( At work now )

G Dane,Paul Moir Help please...

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Lieutenant Junior Grade

Commander

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Lieutenant Junior Grade

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Commander

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Lieutenant Junior Grade

Commander

Commander

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Commander

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Commander