Gasoline Prices

[jtexas]

Re: Gasoline Prices

In a free enterprise economy, competition, or the threat of competition, is a downward force on prices. The U.S. government has created artificial barriers to entry into the gasoline market in the form of onerous environmental regulations that make new refineries economically infeasible. Therefore it is not a free enterprise market.

The fall in gasoline prices can be directly attributed to buyers of hybrid vehicles. OPEC knows that as oil gets more expensive other forms of energy become more attractive. They're just trying to find the optimal price...high enough that we complain about it, but not so high that we abandon it altogether.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Gasoline Prices

I expect the prices to be back up there in about a month. Who can we blame if that is the case?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Dubya!

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Gasoline Prices

I'm sorry to say this, Tx, but gas prices are indeed a commodity, and beyond the control of any politician.

That does not mean it is all "supply and demand" however. Speculators fuel the wild swings in the oil and gas market. Speculators by definition cannot make money in a stable, explainable market. They can only make money when the market fluctuates, and the wilder it fluctuates, the more opportunity for them to make money.

It does not matter whether the market rises or falls to speculators. Movement is all they require.

This does not mean we can assume because of the recent decline in oil/gas prices we are somehow out of the woods. The same speculators that have forced the market down will shortly be at work trying to force it back up again.

We need some sort of long term energy policy that addresses both consumption and sources of energy that makes sense from a supply standpoint as well as an environmental standpoint.

PW2 is 100% correct in every statement he made.

Ken

 

[DJ]

Re: Gasoline Prices

As much as it pains (opening myself) me to say so, oil prices are relevant of elections.

With that said, that price differential comes from BOTH sides. Dem's can no more afford $3.00+ gas prices than Rep's. At least the Rep's admit it.

With that said, we're ALL forgetting the real issue.

1. We CAN'T refine/move it.

We all know WHO blocked the refining/moving ability.

With upcoming elections, we have BIGGER issues. That is, WHO is coming across our border?

I know, immigration is a big-YAWN!

 

[12Footer]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Same amout of oil available, China etc. still building and using up oil, demand constant, only difference is upcoming election which R will lose if prices do not drop.

And you guys told me that the administration has no control on gasoline prices. Explain to me again this whole supply and demand thing. Bunk.

Dang!! The cat is outta the bag! Just when ol Cheney comes up with the perfect diabolical plan, along comes TX, and blows their plan wide open. Wouldn't that just snuff-out yer illuminati?
You rascals complain about high fuel costs, and a bad economy in the best economy since Reagan left office, but when the price drops, it is still a diabolical scheme..

This is ideal. Just keep yer tin foil caps on until november.

 

[crunch]

Re: Gasoline Prices

With upcoming elections, we have BIGGER issues. That is, WHO is coming across our border?

I know, immigration is a big-YAWN!


Obviously you weren’t around earlier this week, see:

http://forums.iboats.com/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=20;gtid=1170007

and:

http://forums.iboats.com/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=20;gtid=1168218

Got down right lively for a while.

 

[PW2]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Kiz wrote: Quote>
PW2 is 100% correct in every statement he made.
End quote>

There must have been a typo, Kiz

I'm sure you meant to say "every statement he has ever made"

Not to worry- I'll gladly correct it.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Sorry to disagree but I do not think gasoline is a commodity. Oil is the commodity. However, the oil price does not fluctuate directly with the price of gasoline. Also the commodities market affects prices in the future, not the price on the present market.

Gasoline prices have dropped from $3.09 to $2.29 here in the past month, a 26% decrease in price. If the control was direct the price of a barrel of oil today should be $51.80.

Yes there is a relationship but there are many other factors involved including price fixing, industrial anti-trust actions, and an oil supported administration.

Again, no new refineries is because of the oil industry. No new competition wanted. Capacity is NOT necessarily related to new refineries. Refineries increase their capacities all the time. How blind would we have to be to think the oil companies can produce no more now than 30 years ago.

ee, I think you are the one that crowned me as being smarter than you, not me. I would not be one to say such although I do try to stay informed and open to making decisions.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Txw,

I can see your line of thought to a certain extent. I can understand you logic (not that I agree) right up until you then blame Bush. It is like an afterthought. A bonus if you will.

As for refineries, why would anyone want to. Don't fool yourself you would need 1000 Johnny Cochrane's just to get approval. Then the adverse press associated with protests of liberal whacko's, only to lose money which was the hallmark of the industry for years. How much do you think it cost to get just the approval for nuclear plants only to have nut cases protest and shut them down prior to completion. Approval isn't even half the battle. Now that there are profits made, we have to blame them? They lost money for years, where was your concern then? What investor would put their money in a start up in an industry this volitile, regulated, with the huge liability inherant in our litigious society, to make the scant profits (more like huge losses) consistant with the 80's and 90's?

Teddy Kennedy owns an oil company. Why no blame for him. He is DIRECTLY involved, profiting directly. You want us to accept guilt by association for Bush, (a connection that you have failed to show) and then in other posts demand freedom for terrorists who at a minimum have evidence of their complicity in crimes against humanity.

My understanding is that the commodities market is responsible for a majority of the fluxuations in the price of fuel. PW2 is right on the mark. When you look at the breakdown on the cost of a gallon of gas, the largest leach is the government. Yet no relief from taxes added to each gallon, making it tough to take their concern seriously.

You can't blame Bush for everything. These drastic swings in price are not consistant with a planned and executed price fixing scheme. 17 cents is a week? It is too much of a red flag for any thinking insider to let happen intentionally.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Kiz wrote: Quote>
PW2 is 100% correct in every statement he made.
End quote>

There must have been a typo, Kiz

I'm sure you meant to say "every statement he has ever made"


Not to worry- I'll gladly correct it.

ROTFLMAO
d :devil:

Ken

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Ever tried to get a hotel room when a big convention is in town.

If you can find one, your gonna pay big.

I guess hotels are part of GWB's plan too.

Are you so new that you dont remember that gas prices historically drop after summer ends?

Ken

 

[txswinner]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Pointer, Not that difficult to get the go ahead in Texas and other southern states, I promise. New wells are started daily in our part of the country and pollution is something we have to live with, although some of us would prefer to limit.

Oil companies losing money? You have got to be sh..... me. The majors do not, have not, and will not lose money. That is giant poop.

I have been in company of oil executives for years and they never hurt for anything. Yes some small oil operators go bust but not the big boys.

My comments are not invisible, how many company owned stations are there today vs. 30 years ago. Any idea why. Big oil forced them out of business. Why so make bigger profits. At one time in this country, a person could open a service station and make a good living servicing cars and selling gasoline. That was before the big boys took it over.

Many other businesses have gone and are going the same way. Why, because corporations enjoy ALL the rights of an individual with no way to control them. Corps are mindless, souless, bodiless, money gathering machines.

Anyway, I believe the argument that the oil industry is not a free market and is a closed monopolistic industry. Not free enterprize by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Uhhh, you are grouping two totall different businesses together.

Oil companies drill for oil.
Service station companies sell gasoline.

They may have the same name, but most are completely seperate businessess. Just because it says Exxon on the gas pump doenst mean Exxon owns the gas station.

The service stations profits have not changed a lot over the years. They usually make 5-10 cents a gallon profit. Sometimes they get lucky and buy low and sell high.

The oil companies profits have gone up significantly here lately.

They were loosing money in 1999 when oil hit 8-10 dollars/bbl. Many people were laid off from the big companies. There were layoff in the industry just 3 years ago.

Ken

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Txs,

I was referring to the construction of new refineries. Yes big oil lost big bucks. Just because hitters on the boards of oil companies still drive Mercedes doesn't mean they didn't lose money. Look at Ford. Exec's still making big bucks and not worried about putting food on the table.

Service stations make their profits selling doritos and cheetos and pop. Ken is highly optimistic that they make 10 cents a gal. The profit isn't in the fuel but the goodies.

I don't deny your supposition that Oil is a monopoly. The cash influx to create competition is huge and the downside even bigger. Therefor no new competitors.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Gasoline Prices

keni
gotta disaagree with that last statement.
Exxon in TX drove 95% of private stations outta bidness. I worked for one that was taken over.
Jim owned the land but exxon owned the pumps,tanks and price control.
thats kinda how most of it works now.
they said there was no black list in the DFW area in the mid-eighties, however, those that did not play by exxon,shell and chevron rules just went belly up.
I know, I worked gas stations in the DFW area at that time.
when they finnaly forced crawfords Exxon in cleburne TX to sell it was a choice of sell or the wholesale price of fuel would drive him under.
was a ***** but it went from a full service station with a mechanic,me, to a tiger mart in 3 months.

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Well one part of it is the "Summer blend" that is used to keep all the tree huggers happy. Now that summer is over, that blend is no longer used for the winter,price drops. As for the rest, it has been discussed before and if you want to search for it, enjoy.
Anything else I can do for you?

The problem with this theory is that the winter blend is required starting next month.

TX, thank you for saying what I've been asserting lately. With elections coming up, the sore point of the red party is being fixed, gas prices are going down. YES fuel prices typically go down in the autumn and winter, but not to this great a percentage. It truly would take head-in-the-sand sheople to believe that the election and the redumblican party's woes related to outrageous gasoline prices aren't related to the current decrease in the fuel prices. The prices may not shoot up after November 7, but the prices will rise, relatively.

And 12'er, how do you claim that this is the best economy since reagan? So many indicators show it is much, much worse than even just 10 years ago. But then again, only the elite matter, just like in the reagan admin. I guess if you are in the upper 5% of society then the economy is great. Or if you are the reigning party you can manipulate what indicators you wish to use to rate the economy. In my corner of the (lower) middle class, the economy is not the best since reagan.

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: Gasoline Prices

At the risk of hijacking this thread, let me clarify what I meant by manipulating indicators....

The following is hypothetical, so don't flame me for inaccuracies, this is only to illustrate my point.

The economy loses 200,000 jobs paying $15.00/hr with health benefits, dental, 401k, flex spending and misc other benefits, such as vacation time and personal days.

The economy gains 250,000 jobs paying $9.00/hr with no benefits beyond vacation time.

So is the economy better because it gained a net 50,000 jobs? According to the red party's corporate-accounting standards YES the economy is better. According to real life and the common man, NO the economy is not better off. But big business is, and we all know that is all that matters to king george and his kind.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Gasoline Prices

At the risk of hijacking this thread, let me clarify what I meant by manipulating indicators....

The following is hypothetical, so don't flame me for inaccuracies, this is only to illustrate my point.

The economy loses 200,000 jobs paying $15.00/hr with health benefits, dental, 401k, flex spending and misc other benefits, such as vacation time and personal days.

The economy gains 250,000 jobs paying $9.00/hr with no benefits beyond vacation time.

So is the economy better because it gained a net 50,000 jobs? According to the red party's corporate-accounting standards YES the economy is better. According to real life and the common man, NO the economy is not better off. But big business is, and we all know that is all that matters to king george and his kind.

Yes, you did hi-jack. There is no relevancy in your union talking points and the cost of gas.

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: Gasoline Prices

Kagee,
Thank you for confirming my hijack (like it wasn't obvious already). My "union talking points" weren't directly related to gas prices, but to my challenge that this is the best economy since reagan.

But as for gas prices, they are still falling here in Northern Michigan. Adn the latest poll results I've heard and read show that fuel prices are no longer as much of a sore point with people and that those sheople are now not as upset with the redumblicans. So the decline in gas prices are helping the red party. Is that clear enough to understand? GWB and the redumblicans may not control fuel prices, but they certainly are benefiting from those who do. Benefiting from those who desire a continuing rape of the American people, the environment, our rights, and the Constituion. There is your connection. And it is grotesque.