Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

itstippy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Messages
548
I've gotten my hands on 1967 20hp FD 21R Johnson that runs strong once it's started but gets water in the gearcase oil. After reading the forums I decided this 35 year old outboard could use a new seal kit, and I'm the man to do the job. I bought a kit and Seloc manual from iboats and an old parts catalog from eBay and went to work. Now I have the gearcase apart and need some help!<br />1) How do I get the old seals out? They are in tighter than heck and I've already mangled the old prop shaft seal trying to get it out of the bearing head. The prop was rubbing on the bearing head and there's a "rim" of metal kinda fusing the seal into its seat. The drive shaft seal doesn't have that problem, but it doesn't want to come out either. What's the trick to getting the old seals out? Is there also a trick to getting the new seals in?<br />2) How do I get the shift rod bushing out so I can replace the o ring? Seloc's says "A special taperd punch is required to remove the bushing from the lower unit housing. Obtain the special punch, and then remove the bushing and the o-ring". What special punch, and how am I goung to punch out a brass bushing buried way in there?<br />3) There was no o-ring at the top of the drive shaft. Is it stuck up in the motor? I didn't get a likely replacement in the seal kit either, but that's another issue. <br />4) Someone in the past incorrectly installed the front bearing, failing to line up the slot in the bearing with the pin in the housing. The telltale mark from the pin that Seloc's says to look for is right there. There's still a wee bit of the pin sticking out; it's not completely driven into the housing. If I line the bearing up properly it catches what's left of the pin and holds its position. Is this OK? I hate the idea of drilling out the old pin and trying to find a replacement somewhere. How much pin is supposed to stick up? Seloc's doesn't say.<br />5) The seal kit I got is not like the picture in the catalog. I got four seals (two different sizes), four o-rings (all different sizes), two nylon washers, and two composit washers. I've emailed iboats to get this straightened out, but I'm confused on what exactly I'm suppoed to be replacing. Seloc's just says to "throw away all the old o-rings, gaskets, and seals and replace with new". Okay: prop seal and driveshaft seal; shift rod o-ring, driveshaft o-ring, gearcase head o-ring, and spaghetti seal. What else? What's with the washers?<br />I sure hope someone can steer me in the right direction. This "simple" job is becoming a major production. Sorry to be so windy!
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

1) Any way you can. You may be able to get the driveshaft one out by tapping it from the inside with a long rod and hammer. Remember it doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to come out without damageing the housing. If you suspect sealant is gluing in in place, you could try hitting it with a propane torch to burn it out. Of course, with the old seal going up in flames it's going to be a smokey mess. The seals go in much easier than they come out. Just the right sized socket from the wrench set can be used to drive them in. The ridge on the bearing carrier will need to be cut away. Something like a dremel with a carbide bit will work.<br />2) Shift rod discussion, click here.<br />3) The o-ring was likely never replaced or it crumbled to bits. Fetch a new one from the plumbing supply store or your OMC dealer, who ever is closest. It's not stuck up in the crankshaft - that's really impossible.<br />4) I think it's OK. Pay attention to other's opinions here though. :) <br />5) Shift rod pivot screw o-ring (little tiny one). The nylon washers are for the lube fill and vent screws, and should be replaced every time you remove those screws (ie, every gear oil change). I have no idea what the composite washers are for, but I suspect the extra seals are for older style gearcases that used different sized propshaft seals.
 

itstippy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Messages
548
Re: Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

Thanks for the great advice! This site is super. I posted my woes at 11:00PM Friday and went to bed discouraged. Got up at 5:30AM Saturday and already there's a reply that covers everything. My confidence is restored and soon the gearcase will be too.<br />What kind of sealer should I use to put everything back together? I'll be at the hardware store when they open to find a suitable o-ring for the drive shaft; I can get a tube of sealer then. Any special advice? Thanks again! I'll post my success news when this project is complete. Then I'll read up on past posts to tackle the hard starting problem. This synchronized spark/fuel system is fascinating. I've long wondered how outboards get so much horsepower from such a small unit. The water-cooling system (seals for which I'm working on now) and spark/fuel synchronization must be the secret. I'm used to working on Briggs & Stratton and Techumsah lawnmower engines. I've got a small tractor with a 14HP B&S that's MASSIVE compared to this 20HP Johnson outboard.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

hello<br /> the composite washer goes under the brass shift seal carrier. its a pain to clean the old seal:) :) . to remove the shift seal carrier/bushing tap it with a 5/16thsx18 tap put a bolt in it from the top and turn it upside down and use a 1/4 inch punch or rod and knock it out. use 3m super weather strip adhesive on all sealling areas. be careful when assembling the shift mechanisim. the pin stick up is only a 16th of an inch or so. a new pin can be purchased . on the occasion I have been known to just drive the original pin on down and put the new one on top.<br /> its a very simple case but requires care in reassembly.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

cajun555

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
483
Re: Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

I may be mistaken, but after careful study of my Seloc manual, on my 30,I put the fiber washer under the shift rod o-ring. The washer fit right inside the bushing and made for a tighter fight of the o-ring on shift rod.<br /><br />The sealer I use is the "Permatex Aircraft" sealer, Brush in a can.<br /><br />I don't think I saw it mentioned, But while your in the L/U, I would go ahead and replace the pump impeller.<br /><br />Also check your drive shaft and prop shaft where the seals ride to make sure theres not a grove worn in them. If there is a grove in them that will also have to be addressed. <br /><br /> Good luck
 

itstippy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Messages
548
Re: Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

Super. I fabricated a tapered punch from some old rod stock I had on hand, and the bushing is out. The remnants of a composit washer were under there too. Off to the hardware store for sealant and an o-ring. There are slight groves on the driveshaft where the bearings ride. How to I "address" this? Onward!
 

itstippy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Messages
548
Re: Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

The gearcase is reassembled and in good order. Many thanks to you experts. Lacking advice on how to deal with grooves in the driveshaft where it meets the seals, I smoothed them out with emery. The grooves weren't too bad and the seals hugged the shaft well upon assembly, so I let it go at that. <br />The (to me) slender driveshaft sure travels a long way between powerhead and gearcase; "long shaft" units travel even farther. I'm impressed that with 20HP up top the driveshaft splines below aren't munched. They look good! After 35 years! Obviously a prop in water is more forgiving than tires on pavement. <br />The old girl is still hard to start, so you folks will probably be seeing "help wanted" posts from me when I get serious about the internal combustion aspects. This may have to wait until Spring, since the Fall fishing is upon us here in Wisconsin. Time to dig out "Old Blue" (4hp, '72 Evinrude, always starts, always runs) and the "Doughnut", my leaky 12' jon boat.
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help

Hey, I've got a '72 4hp Johnson. Same thing about starting/running.<br />Good to hear you've got it back together. If the grooves were bad enough to cause a leak, you can have 'speedi-sleeves' installed by a machinest inexpensively. They're stainless, and cover over the section of the shaft that's worn. They're not large enough to warrant finding a bigger ID seal.<br /><br />Check your link and sync for the hard starting. Seems to me when the timing is set right, an engine will start a lot easier.<br /><br />PS - Thanks rodbolt, I never knew about those washers!
 
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