Got something nawin on me

Texasmark

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Was trying to go to sleep awhile ago. Couldn't. Reason was these new hubs that folks are talking about.

Been told that you have to torque it to 100 ft-lbs to get the Delrin to fully seat against the thrust washer.

Delrin is a semi soft plastic; used in the aerospace industry (among other places) because of dielectric constant, machineability, and stability in harsh environments.

In the prop I have (Hustler), with the new fancy hub, there is a brass/bronze splined hub

that connects to (slides over) the propshaft and that brass hub has fins on it (around the outer circumference). These fins are cast into the Delrin and the Delrin is then slotted on it's circumference to accept slots on the ID of the propeller casting.

You aren't going to put 100 ft-lbs of torque on Delrin....it will cold flow and move out of the way or desintigrate (crumble).

I think the 100 ft lbs is a seat of the pants cover up job to get it to work. I think that the originator of the memo/service bulletin/ what have you, had a table full of props with the guts ripped out of them and decided that if you smash all this stuff together hard enough it can't disentigrate..............nor can it slip either.

What you do is put 100 ft-lbs on the brass/bronze tube that is splined to the prop shaft. The Delrin transmits torque from the center hub's splines to the prop. So if you smash it all together hard enough, there is no place for the Delrin to go when it gets smacked.

i'm here to tell you that the prop I have will not slip like a rubber slip clutch can slip. This prop is locked together via the Delrin and you hit something with this baby and parts are going to go a flying.

I read all the yakin about what this new hub is supposed to do, but I think somebody is blowing smoke. :|

With that said, I can't understand why the design. If it's because rubber slips on high hp engines, then ok. But this sucker is not going to slip. It will tear.

I would appreciate directions to engineering data that discusses the reason for the new hub and how it is supposed to do what it's supposed to do cause I can't see it from here and 100 ft-lbs ain't the answer; leastwise not in my limited electromechanical engineering mentality.

Thanks,

Mark
 

walleyehed

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Re: Got something nawin on me

Mark, try this.......Mike Shedivy. You can reach him through the normal office number of 920-929-5000.

If Mike doesn't pick up, ask to speak with him about this.
 

Texasmark

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Re: Got something nawin on me

I will. But before I do, could you give me some background on him so that i know who I'm talking to.

Thanks Ken,

Mark
 

walleyehed

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Re: Got something nawin on me

He was put in charge of the propeller division when Chris Drees left....I'm not sure of his actual "title" but he should be able to answer your question or send you to the engineer that can.
 

Texasmark

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Re: Got something nawin on me

I'll do her my man, tomorrow (Monday) and report back. Cause I'd bet there are a lot of folks on here contemplating prop purchases that are interested in the answer.

I know there are as we get hub questions quite regularly.

Thanks Ken,

Mark
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Got something nawin on me

That was a very intresting post TM, if what you are deducing is correct that would be a very sloppy approach to a issue. Have you dismantled your hustler to see if the Delrin is deforming, this will be intresting and i was on the edge of my seat waiting for, walleyehed
does the Enertia use this type of hub system?
 

WTPhantom309

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May 25, 2006
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Re: Got something nawin on me

Caterpillar had the same problem with harmonic dampners, their fix was to make it tighter so it didnt come off, and as Mark said when you make it tighter its just gonna break and tear somthing else up, my .02


Derek
 

walleyehed

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Re: Got something nawin on me

T.G., Yes, the Enertia uses the flo-torq...infact, "all" of Merc's SS props now feature either the flo-torq system or solid hub.
Michigan wheel is in the same boat with the Apollo and a few others with the "XHS" system, which is interchangable with flo-torq..
TexasMark, hope ya get the answers you want, but I've done the same thing months ago before Chris left.
I wasn't happy with the answers but I can't complain "too" loud or Kenny don't get to run any more Merc props....all I can do is run'em and tell them what I think.....Hope you have better luck.
 

Texasmark

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Re: Got something nawin on me

LOL on your comment about loosing your job Ken.

I called them this morning and Mike was away from his desk....I hate to leave messages. So I called back and the operator sent me to Scott Reycol (spelling) and he too was out......so I'll do it later. Scott is supposed to be the racing propeller hot dog.

At least I found out that these guys work for the Merc Propeller mfgr.
-----------------------
Tex, I had to assemble the hub into the prop when it arrived prior to installing it on the engine. I have since had it off and put it back on the shelf in the box. I didn't hit anything with it, but a little common sense is what caused me to be alarmed as I looked at the construction of it. I am a retired engineer and I am extremely curious as to the cause and effect in the design and application of products. I just like to see how things work; why those that do, do, and those that don't, don't.
-------------------
Ken, if they are using these hubs or going solid on the hubs, I'd bet the clutch dogs in the lower units are going NUTS!!!!

So, curiousity has me again.......what'd the 300 hp V8's use for hubs back when they came out?

Will keep you posted,

Mark
 

walleyehed

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Re: Got something nawin on me

They run alot of solid, splines machined into the prop-type gear when used for high performance.
The std hub props are used as well.
 

walleyehed

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Re: Got something nawin on me

OK, I got to talk with Roger at Merc prop division....
He says I am the first to question the rattle or clunk of the flo-torqII.......
He also told me all in-line 4 Verados and all 3-cylinder Mercs are now shipped with a flo-torq III & IV hub kits installed on the prop shaft because they rattle...
I'm told the paper listing 100ftlbs is for liability only and you will "feel" when the Delrin sleeve "seats", but it should be atleast 55ftlbs, but may take more.
The Flo-torq IV has the long splines and must be reamed-out 3/4"(splines removed), just like any merc or yammy prop to fit JohnRudes.
His answer to the Rattle was "not to idle so much", and if you do, the flo-torq system "may not be for you".
The flo-torq IV is good to 200hp.
Thank you, have a nice day...................8)
 

Texasmark

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Re: Got something nawin on me

Great answer Ken, thanks. Maybe you got some points being the question was well (appeared to be well) received. 8)

Well, I guess if oem is shipping them on new engines they must work ok otherwise there would be a lot of $$ in recalls...I guess.

Butttttttt here we go again (my never ending curiousity). He said that if you idle alot, maybe the flow torque is not for you. So what do idlers do, go back to a prop with the old fasioned rubber hub? I guess so. Now all you have to do is figure out what kind of hub is in the prop you buy before you buy it course if the prop is featuring the flo-torq system then it's easy

Hmmmmm wonder what MWC is doing in this arena? Happen to know?

Mark
 

walleyehed

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Re: Got something nawin on me

I don't know what MWC is doing with the XHS if anything...
I "think" until enough people say something, they are going to rattle, period....some are worse than others, and it upsets me that with a prop like the Enertia, the only choice you have is the rattle...I don't care for it, can't stand it, and I ain't gonna run'em.
The prop does everything it says it will, but I don't have to listen to the noise with a Turbo...
 

Texasmark

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Re: Got something nawin on me

Well, that's where I am with the Hustler. It's alum and light and I "may" have heard a rattle once while running it, but it cost me 600 rpm's and about 3 mph (as I recall) and it's painted a grayish color and, as you are well aware, my Merc is Phantom Black and shiny.

Not only do I loose performance (do to the thicker blades I think) it looks crappy on my rig.....I like the nice highly polished SS sitting back there.

I'm going to town today and will be going close by a Merc dealer. Think I'll take a detour by there and chat with him about props and hubs.

Later,

Mark
 
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