gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

[stackz]

ok, this has been bugging at me for quite a while now and nobody local to me really has an answer.

I've read threads on here where people say such and such engine is too big for their boat, etc and they cant run it. why?

example (probably a bad one too but first thing that popped in my head).


17' boston whaler with a 115hp yamaha.
vs.
17' bass boat with a 250hp mercury.


I mean seriously? everyone will say the yamaha is just right for that boat and the same for the bass boat but yet the bass boat has a MASSIVE engine on it and will do 70+ while the whaler will only hit around 45ish.

I've heard arguments for engine weight, etc. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this logic is all at this point.

I mean why not toss the 250 on the whaler or the 115 on the bass boat? does the guy on the lake with possibly submerged trees really need to be doing 70+?? why cant the guy in the bay go over 45 to get out to the jetties on a calm day?

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

Lots of factors involved... Although it may not sink with a 250 on the back, the Whaler simply isn't designed to handle that much power. Its hull is designed for a certain purpose - ride stability at modest speeds, load carrying, etc. Its cathedral hull would likely become unstable at very high speeds. The hull on the bass boat is designed differently, to handle a larger motor and higher speeds. It has a shallow, padded V to resist chinewalking and a reinforced transom to handle the additional weight and torque.

On a side note, I'm not aware of many 17-foot bass boats rated for 250. The bass boats capable of handling motors that large are upwards of 20-feet... Doesn't mean someone hasn't put a 250 on their 17-footer, in which case he's exceeding the design and may have to deal with whatever consequences that entails, from safety and legality standpoints...

Further - competition bass boats are fast for one reason - the events they participate in have a time limit, so the less time spent getting from the starting point to the fishing hole, the more time they have lines in the water...

 

[robert graham]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

Lots about boat weight, design and deadrise. I had a 16'Checkmate with a 115 Yamaha and it was set up near perfect for about 60MPH at 5800RPM's, pretty deep deadrise front to back and at transom. My 18' MV jon boat with 6 degree deadrise at transom with 90HP Yamaha is O.K. at 40MPH, but will porpoise bad if you even try to trim it up, not a very efficient hull, and I can't keep gas in it at WOT! These modern bass boats are set up for 70+MPH, no problem...but I still don't want to hit a stump at 70MPH, or even 40MPH! Geezer likes slow and easy!...

 

[steelespike]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

Any boat running at 50+ can take a bad turn or dive into a wave in a second and kill.
running that fast requires a lot of attention not only for water conditions but for the other 50+ mph boats in the area and wear a pfd.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

the question points to the fact that most of the discussion here is based on general boating use, and there are lots of assumptions made, FBOW. Discussions about speciality boats or speciality boat use shouldn't be confused; think about a race car, a work truck, a safari vehicle and a family wagon.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

Those boats will have a plate (as do most recreational/sport boats) that indicate people capacity as well as maximum HP ratings. The manufacturer of the boat knows what it is capable of and calculates that number based on the design of the boat. Overpowering is not so much about can the boat handle it, but what happens when you harm or kill someone in an accident. Your insurance company will likely not insure an over powered boat, if you lied to them when you did insure it and have an accident they will likely hang you out to dry. Lawyers are not stupid people and will certainly discover the fact that the boat is over powered and that's all the excuse they need to drag your behind into court during which all your stuff will belong to someone else (especially if you are not insured) and especially if proven negligent..

 

[JB]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

The classic Boston Whaler 17 is rated for 100HP, MAX. It is a fishing and cruising boat and actually handles best with a 70HP, which will send it to 40mph with three aboard. For many years the "standard" outboard for 16-17 Boston Whalers was a Bearcat 55 4 stroke. It made a nice package, but got a little sluggish with more than three occupants. Anything over 45-50mph in a classic BW 17 is downright foolish.

I have seen a BW 17 with a 150HP V6 on it. It was a pregnant pig for handling and agility and would walk the chines at anything over about 3/4 WOT.

I have no comment on Bassrockets, except that I never did, and probably never will, understand why they do that.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

The giant engines and bass boats is really as Chinewalker said. Competition. I will add...some of it is just testosterone competition. When you only have minutes to spare between you and $100,000 or more the time between fishing needs to be minimal. Safe? No...but most of the time the drivers are pros and not the weekend bassers in local tournies--they probably handle their boats better than you handle a car. Still, driving fast in a boat is incredibly dangerous--match with driving fast in a canal (bass fishing) and it can become deadly very quickly. If you want to shoot across the bay or a lake at 90...go ahead, but don't include me! ;-) Been there and it will scare the dickens out of ya.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

I honestly feel that some manufacturers error on the side of caution with these max HP numbers, honestly.

I have a 13.5' fiberglass crappie boat, where the first 3 feet of the boat is the "point" where the trolling motor goes so the inside of the boat MIGHT be 10 feet, if that, from transom to the front. It has about 5" of freeboard at the transom with one person in the front and a 28HP engine on the back. That is reduced to 3" with an adult in the back seat. This boat will do 27.5mph with a 28. It is rated for a 40. At WOT with a 28 it is stable, but hauling ***. I wouldn't want to put a 40 on it.

Then on the other hand, I see boats weighing 3 times as much, brand new boats, with max rated 40hp. These are 16' welded aluminum boats that are twice as wide as my boat. I mean literally, on my little boat, sitting in the front seat, if I swing around to the back I can lean over and touch the back seat, and this boat is rated for a 40. The hull might weigh 400lbs. Maybe.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

You're correct about "error on the side of caution." The last thing the mfg is going to tell you is, "It's rated for a 40, but heck...a 250 will really speed ya up!" My 14ft fiberglass bass boat is rated for a 60HP. A 70HP (maybe an 85hp) would not be out of the question. A 115HP would not be a good/smart idea. My 17ft aluminum bass boat came with something like a 40HP. It runs a 70HP without a problem at about 40/45MPH. I wouldn't dream of dropping something more powerful.

A lot of it depends on length, width (and there is a formula) and hull type...ie...a 16ft flats or a 16ft bowrider...big difference. The other side of the coin is engine weight. New 4 cycles weigh a bunch more than the old 2 cycle in the same HP range. Watching SSTV the other day and he was comparing same HP to same HP on different manufacturers...geebus!! The Merc was a huge difference compared to the Yamaha. In my case a new 75hp Evinrude is 70lbs heavier than the current old Johnson I have and I would have to drop to a 50hp to maintain the same weight ratio. The 70HP Yamaha is about the same weight as I current have.

 

[LonLB]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

The boat bottom on a bass boat is engineered to run at higher speeds. Many times and be stable.
Some boats run into problems at certain higher speeds but can usually be solved with changing the setup.
FWIW the common max factory HP in a 17ft boat is 150. The 17' boats built today aren't rated for that however. Historically ratings were 17ft-150hp, 18'-175hp, 19' 200hp.

FWIW there are things to make a bassboat much safer at high speeds. Other than the fact they are built for running at much higher speeds there are modifications that can be made.
Dual cable steering, or hydraulic steering. Column mounted Stalk trim and jack plate switches, hot foot foot throttles, solid engine mounts, hydraulic jack plates, etc.

 

[stackz]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

Then on the other hand, I see boats weighing 3 times as much, brand new boats, with max rated 40hp. These are 16' welded aluminum boats that are twice as wide as my boat. I mean literally, on my little boat, sitting in the front seat, if I swing around to the back I can lean over and touch the back seat, and this boat is rated for a 40. The hull might weigh 400lbs. Maybe.

this is more along the lines of what I was trying to convey with my analogy...which I did state was probably bad but was one of the first things to come to my mind lol.

I've seen boats of similar class type (small 15' center consoles, etc) different manufacturers, etc and they all look right about the same, but one will have a 40hp on it, and another will have a 115hp on it.

I've seen fishers all in the same low 20'ish range and some will have a single outboard and some have triples.

I know hull design, etc can effect engine selection/choices. I do know this. but that doesnt mean you cant strengthen it, etc.

hell, nothing stopped oops from adding like 3' to his boat.

and just like the people with I/O setups going from a 4.3 to a 350. a 350 only weighs maybe 50lb more than a 4.3...yet can be modified to the moon and back and make gobs more power.

I dunno, I guess it just messes with my head when I see bayliners with 350's chugging along at 20mph and then see one of those tiny little rocket boats with a 350 behind the guy's head flying across the water.

 

[stackz]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

and yeah, I understand that overpowering a boat is like taking a straight-6 base model mustang with drums and tossing a 900hp twin turbo 460 into it. it'll be fast as hell but god forbid you have to turn or slow down.

its just that how do you know when you modify the boat, what you can/cant do with it. when is too much too much, etc? I mean I've seen the boats converted from I/O to outboards with jackplates and wondered to myself, why a single outboard if this is going offshore? why not a twin setup etc?

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

"Historically ratings were 17ft-150hp, 18'-175hp, 19' 200hp."

I can't imagine my 17ft with a 150hp! Of course, that depends on what one calls a bass boat. I mean, mine is a bass boat, but not the 17ft long 9ft wide low slung speedster, so using the generic "bass boat" could you someone in a lot of trouble...or wet. ;-)

I saw a 16ft riding a trailer on the way home yesterday, a Talon 16 with a monster engine hanging off the back, but even at 16ft it was probably 8ft across the stern out to 9ft approaching the bow.

 

[DaNinja]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

A friend of mine fishes pro. He won this Ranger in a tourney a while back.
I believe it's a Z21 with a 250hp on the back. He told me about some pre-tournament meetings where guys had to be reminded about the 250hp limit in the series. I guess guys were rebadging their 300hp with 250 cowlings thinking the judges wouldn't notice.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

Tell ya what stackz. When I was a kid about 16, I worked at a mechanics shop and my boss said, "Hey! Take my car to your house. I don't want leave it here tonight." I only lived a block away. Well, it was a 69 Chevy II with a 396 stuffed under the hood and ran about 600hp, 4 speed Hurst shifter, etc. I cranked it up and punched it as I left the driveway thinking I was a big shot. After some screaming and clouds of smoke leaving black circles on the street in front of his business along with messing my pants, I idled it to my house with white knuckles and a cold sweat.

 

[dingbat]

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

I mean I've seen the boats converted from I/O to outboards with jackplates and wondered to myself, why a single outboard if this is going offshore? why not a twin setup etc?

Then why is it that a vast majority of commercial offshore boats single engine?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: gotta ask, bass boats and engines...

as mentioned, "hull" makles a difference on rating; length has little to do with it. If you have a perfectly flat boat like a polarcraft jon, bayrunner, sougthern skimmer or old Carolina skiff, they slide dangerously at speed. Therefore I hope the rating guys consider that and back them down some.