GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

GHBAY

Seaman
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
70
I am looking at putting in a gps/FF unit but would like one I can also read fuel flow on as well. Anyone have a set up like this? what brand/options did you go with? Have you found it worth while?

I have heard both garmin and lowrance have fuel flow possibilities- not sure about humminbird.

thanks
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,320
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

When I purchased my system, Garmin's sounder technology was weak to say the least. To get the best of the best, I purchased a furuno sounder and a Garmin 4208 chart plotter. The 4208 has Bluechart, remote gps module, a gfs-10 fuel flow and a garmin 300 AIS module.

A rock solid unit housed in an aluminum, waterproof case. Not the cheap injection molded housings found on other units. The unit supports overlay radar and CHIRP sounder technology.

If I had it to do over I would have gotten the touchscreen version
 

Pez Vela

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
504
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

How you go about displaying fuel flow data depends upon your motor's capability to transmit that data, so the first question becomes, which motor(s) do you have? Displaying GPH is useful to me, because a sudden change would alert me to a problem, and it allows me to continuously determine my boat's fuel efficiency in various operating conditions. I run Raymarine electronics on my boat FWIW. Any decent MFD will display engine data, so your choice will likely be based on your budget and personal brand preference.
 

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GHBAY

Seaman
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
70
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

Thanks for the replies- keep em coming!

I have a 4.3 VP GXI- fuel injected. I have a regular fuel flow meter on another boat and have benefited from identifying my best cruising speed, etc. On this boat, i figured it was worth incorporating a fuel flow set up into a gps/charts set up. I dont want to break the bank completely, but am willing to spend a bit to get a slick, effective system set up.
 

jhebert

Ensign
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Jul 24, 2005
Messages
903
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

Data about fuel flow can come from a direct-reading sensor, usually a small turbine sensor inserted into the fuel line, or from the engine itself, if the engine is modern and has electronically controlled fuel injectors. Such engines typically know quite precisely how much fuel they are using because they are directly controlling the flow themselves.

Fuel flow measured with a turbine sensor can be displayed in two general ways: on a dedicated display device associated with the fuel flow measurement system, or on a multi-purpose display which can read the data from the sensor. Typically a multi-purpose display will be one with a NMEA-2000 interface. NMEA-2000 is the modern standard for electronic communication on boats. Note that a GPS receiver or a SONAR or fish finder are not needed for display of fuel flow. You just need a multi-function display.

Many multi-functions displays include a chart plotter and sometimes an internal GPS receiver and internal SONAR. Most of these modern displays have a NMEA-2000 interface so they can integrate with other vessel electronics using the modern NMEA-2000 standard.

A fuel flow sensor that is NMEA-2000 compliant will send NMEA-2000 data about fuel flow which can be read by a multi-function display that is able to handle that data. NMEA-2000 data is sent in parameter groups which are numbered. If you use a turbine sensor, the sensor will indicate what NMEA-2000 parameter it is sending. Look for a display that can read that parameter.

A typical turbine fuel flow sensor that is NMEA-2000 compliant is the Lowrance EP-60R. See

http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/NMEA-2000/EP-60R-Fuel-Flow-en-us.aspx

The specification for this sensor show that it sends PGN 127489.

A modern engine also will typically send information about its fuel flow in the standard engine dynamic parameter group, PGN 127489. In order to take advantage of this data, you will need a display that can read PGN 127489. According the NMEA, devices used with NMEA-2000 networks should provide a list of PGN's they can either send or receive. This means you can easily match up a display with a sensor. It seems almost universal that modern multi-function displays for marine use can handle PGN 127489, and similarly universal that all modern engines will send it. One caution: there are no Brunswick engines in either their Mercury brand or Mercruiser brand that can send any NMEA-2000 data; they are not NMEA-2000 devices. For Brunswick engines you have to invest in a protocol convertor to get the data from the Brunswick protocol, which they call Smartcraft, to the universal standard of modern boat electronics, NMEA-2000.

As for my experience, I have measured fuel flow both ways, with a turbine sensor and with electronic data from a NMEA-2000 engine. Modern outboard engines tend to have very low rates of fuel flow at idle. The relatively inexpensive turbine flow sensors typically cannot measure fuel flow very accurately at the flow rates of a modern outboard engine at idle or low speed. For this reason the turbine sensor may not be a good choice.

For more about the two most common NMEA-2000 parameter groups associated with engine data, see

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PGN.html
 
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blackhawk180

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 14, 2012
Messages
367
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

Seems I'm a ways down on the "qualified to answer list" but I have the setup you describe on my boat so will briefly describe. I have a newer Merc 4 stroke which comes pre-wired with all the sensors. To that I attached a MercMonitor (they are proud of em) which displays almost anything you can imagine engine-wise but on a rather small screen. The MercMonitor is NMEA 2K compliant so I connected it to my HDS 7. The MercMonitor gets GPS data from the HDS and outputs whatever I select to the HDS screen. Very slick. So nice, I added a second HDS 7 so when running, I use one for engine data/speed etc and the other as a chart. While fishing, I toggle the engine display to fish finder.
Works perfect for me but I'm sure there are much better systems out there.
 

jhebert

Ensign
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
903
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

The MercMonitor is NMEA 2K compliant...

The MercMonitor is a Smartcraft gauge. For a while it was sold in a bundle with a Smartcraft-to-NMEA-2000 gateway. The NMEA-2000 gateway converts the engine data to NMEA-2000 protocol from Smartcraft protocol. Later, Mercury decided to unbundle their NMEA-2000 gateway from the MercMonitor gauge, and you can now buy just the NMEA-2000 gateway. It is the gateway device that is NMEA-2000 compliant.
 

blackhawk180

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 14, 2012
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Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

Learn something new here all the time. Thanks, jhebert.
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,320
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

So nice, I added a second HDS 7 so when running, I use one for engine data/speed etc and the other as a chart.
I must be getting old. Then again, I don't think of my smart phone as a valid navigation device either. :laugh:
 
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bruceb58

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Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,588
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

I use a Lowrance fuel flow sender with my Lowrance GPS. How accurate is it is a good question. Personally, I really don't care, especially at idle. What I do care is that I can see what the relative fuel flow is over certain operating conditions so I can adjust my speed or trim for max fuel economy. Very useful to have the fuel flow integrated with a GPS so that it reads out MPG rather than raw GPH.
 

blackhawk180

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 14, 2012
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Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

I can chime in on the accuracy of the MercMonitor/Smartcraft gauge with regards to fuel consumption. If it says I've burned X.y gallons, it will be within a few tenths when I fill up every time. Since it displays fuel consumption in real time, I can adjust RPM and trim to achieve optimum MPG which is also a display option (I know, everyone goes off GPH but I way prefer MPG). I can easily bump MPG from 4.6 to 5.2 by adjusting speed and trim. Based on the cost of the MercMonitor and HDS, I expect them to pay for themselves in fuel savings..... in about 60 years. :)
 

SteveMcD

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Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
182
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

I just have a fish finder that does fuel flow. Lawrence X515cDF with an EP 10 sensor connected via NMEA 2000. It took a few fillups to calibrate, but has since been within a couple of gallons with a 65 gallon tank.
 

Pez Vela

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
504
Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

Based on the cost of the MercMonitor and HDS, I expect them to pay for themselves in fuel savings..... in about 60 years. :)

Good one! Of course you may cut that to 30 years by boating twice as much.
 

blackhawk180

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 14, 2012
Messages
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Re: GPS, charts, fuel flow, FF combos. What set up do you have?

Good point, Pez..... then I'll only be 93 instead of 123! I should launch immediately except there's snow on the ramp and it's 11 degrees outside. sigh
 
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