GPS trolling speed indication

xeddog

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
182
I have read several posts both here on iBoats and other forums where people will say they were trolling at, for example, 2.5mph GPS. When I am idling in my boat the GPS speed indication is all over the place ranging between about 1.5 and 3.0 mph give-or-take. Once I get away from idle, it settles down. So I was wondering if my GPS speed, as displayed on my Humminbird 788ci is typical, or does yours stay pretty well fixed at a given speed when you are trolling?

Wayne
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

There is very little difference between standing still and 1.5 MPH and also between 1.5 MPH and 3.0 mph. Wave action and currents can speed up or slow the boat quickly, therefore the variation.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

A GPS calculates velocity with change in position over time. It is possible depending on what satellites are being used that you can have multipath reflections that cause error in the position by a few feet. You will see this error in position affect your low speed accuracy more than higher speed since the error in position is the same no matter how fast you are traveling.
 

roncoop75

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
229
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

Interesting. Is that an older GPS? My newer car unit doesn't do this but my older hand held unit does it.

I wonder if the increased number of sat's that it looks at helps with that?
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,313
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

My GPS doesn't bounce around more than a couple of 10ths of a kt. at my trolling speed of 2.3 - 3.0 kts (2.6 - 3.4 mph)
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

Next time I am out I am going to pay attention to mine at low speed. I have a Lowrance.
 

Reel Kahuna

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
271
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

GPS tells you how fast your moving,..."over the bottom of the river".

For example, in the San Francisco bay if your trolling near the Golden Gate bridge on a big out going current, even with your engine turned off, you're going to be moving over 5 knots (GPS) over the bottom, but not moving at all over or through the water.

Therefore when trolling in moving water such as a river or bay, in order to register your actual speed over water, a paddle wheel speed sensor is needed.

NOTE: For those who has a Lowrance, check the menu where you'll see that there are two speeds you can set as an overlay. One is ground speed (GPS) and the other is water speed (Paddle Wheel).
 

John_S

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
4,269
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

Wayne,

When HB updated the SW a few releases ago to increase the gps update rate (was 1 per sec) I noticed more jumping around when stationary. The next time out, I will check just idle and in gear. I don't recall seeing much variation, but will check to be sure. I do have gps and paddlewheel speeds displayed.
 

xeddog

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
182
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

To respond to a few of you -

Silvertip - This happens regardless of water and wind conditions. Ihave been on perfectly calm water that you could almost see your own reflection and it still did it. It just "seems" like under those conditions it should be more stable.

bruceb58 - I don't know if it could be multipath reflections or not, but in any case this has been consistent in three different places. Two lakes and one river separated by around 200 miles or a little more.

roncoop75 - This is a new Humminbird 788ci that I have only had for two or three months. Maybe something to do with 50 channels instead of perhaps 16???

dingbat - I would settle for a couple of tenths.

Reel Kahuna - I understand that.

imported_John_S - Interesting. And speaking of stationary, I can bring my head unit into the house and connect it to a 12V power supply. Even with the unit sitting on my desk not being touched, and of course not moving AT ALL, the speed is still all over the place.

Everyone - I dropped by my local boat repair place today and they have a boat they are salvaging and it has a paddle wheel speed sensor. He said he would sell it to me for $20, but I can get a new one for $27 so I am going to try and talk him down some.

But then this brings up another question. When trolling, there are some species of fish that you have to get your speed down to around .5 - 1.0 mph. My gps speed would be too unstable to use, and the paddle wheel says it's range is from 2-75 mph. So how do I get accurate readings down to .5mph???

Wayne
 

Lyle29464

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,261
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

My gps speed would be too unstable to use, and the paddle wheel says it's range is from 2-75 mph. So how do I get accurate readings down to .5mph???

Wayne[/QUOTE]


I guess you will need to rely on the method used by the USCG when they make up the charting tests for the license exam. The old fixed object on shore. Every place has a lighthouse and a smoke stack at the edge of the river.
 

John_S

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
4,269
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

FWIW: I plugged mine in on the portable mount, using internal receiver (boat has GRHA receiver), and set it next to the window. It saw 14 birds and had an enhanced lock (WAAS) with 14' estimated position error. Speed was bouncing around mostly in 0.1 to 0.5 mph range. It would jump to as much as 1.1mph. This seemed to jump more on enhanced than when it only had 3D fix. ???
 

Rick.

Captain
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
3,740
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

xeddog. I have a Humminbird 595 which has GPS. I never get the type of speed variance you mention. I've used it for trolling and it works correctly at slow speeds as well as higher speed. I have never bothered with the paddle wheel as I often troll under 2 MPH. I would suggest you give Humminbird customer service a call. I had trouble with a portable 160 and they bent over backwards to help me out. Best of luck. Rick.
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,313
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

FWIW: I plugged mine in on the portable mount, using internal receiver (boat has GRHA receiver), and set it next to the window. It saw 14 birds and had an enhanced lock (WAAS) with 14' estimated position error. Speed was bouncing around mostly in 0.1 to 0.5 mph range. It would jump to as much as 1.1mph. This seemed to jump more on enhanced than when it only had 3D fix. ???

With a 12 bird plus WAAS fix, I constantly see EPE of < 9?. 6-7? is the norm.

This goes back to an exchange Bruce58 and I had on another thread. When using the newer, high sensitivity GPS receivers, you get better low signal sensitivity at the cost of your overall positioning accuracy.

2. The Move to High-Sensitivity : SiRFstarIII : This all changed in mid-2005 when Garmin announced they would be using the high sensitivity SiRFstarIII chipset in their upcoming n?vi car system and a bit later in the 60/76 Cx handhelds. The SiRFstarIII chipset was launched by SiRF in early 2005 to take over from the SiRFstarII chipset that was already more powerful than the old Garmin chipset, respective tracking ratings being -159dBm, -148dBm and -143dBm (the lower the better). Acquisition sensitivity remained at about -143dBm as this is the level of signal required to download the live ephemeris data from the satellites needed to calculate a position, but with its massive correlation the power, the SiRFstarIII was able to scan the sky for satellites and TTFF (time to first fix) was much faster, provided that minimum level of signal was available.

This move was applauded by most users as it made acquisition times in the morning much more consistent, never more than a minute in good conditions, a bit more while driving and the GPS systems kept tracking virtually everywhere, including indoors, not that it was really useful...The flip-side was that very weak satellite signals were now being used, resulting in a much less stable position, one of the reasons to stick to low-sensitivity systems for marine GPS systems.

http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=259
 

John_S

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
4,269
Re: GPS trolling speed indication

With a 12 bird plus WAAS fix, I constantly see EPE of < 9?. 6-7? is the norm.


What I posted is about what I have seen using the internal receiver at other times. Using the external GHRA receiver in the boat, it is typicaly low single digits. When I have the boat out next, will do an internal to external test.
 
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