Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

[45Auto]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

these folks learned the hard way about overloading this last weekend

A 16 foot boat out in 50 MPH winds - no way to tell if the overloading was the cause of the sinking (it sure didn't help any) - good chance it would have been sunk with only one person in it!

 

[45Auto]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Your boat was handling poorly and turning badly becuase of something simply known as chine walking. One chine was buried in the water while the other was out and the keel was no longer guiding the boat because it was now secondary to the chine.

Interesting definition of chine walking there. You really think the OP was chine walking his 20' Mariah at 25 MPH? So you're saying every time I turn my boat hard enough to get a pretty good lean angle on it then it's chine walking????

Most people's definition of chine walking is more like this:

Chinewalk happens when the boat has the ability to run with little wetted surface. The boat is trying to run on a small pad, once it falls off this pad, it falls to one side then bounces over to the other side. Hence chinewalking!

It happens when you're running fast enough to get almost the whole boat out of the water except for the very back end and the boat falls back and forth from one side to the other - walking on the chines, in other words. Lots of you-tube videos of chine-walking boats out there if you google it.

 

[Steve91T]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

OK, I'm tired of people saying I was overloaded. I'm an airline pilot. I understand the importance of loading.

Here's my boat.

Here's my plaque.

There is no way that I was overloaded with 9 peeps, mostly woman, and a cooler that weighed maybe 30 lbs. The other things I had was one mushroom anchor, and the required life vests (they weigh next to nothing, maybe 15 lbs in all?).

So, now that's out of the way. I wasn't chine walking. While I haven't experienced it, it was just leaning to the left, like it would as if I had 3 fat chicks sitting on the port side. It was odd because I kept looking to see why this was. The cooler was on the left side, but other than that, the weight of the people were fairly evenly distributed. Again, my guess was the torque of the prop.

Again, what I found odd was if I went to turn, the boat would lean over, with very little change in heading. I made several slow-ish turns to the left (20 MPH), and I felt like I was going to swamp the boat. To the right wasn't as bad, but wasn't much better.

Like I said already, the faster I went, the better it felt. Slow wasn't much fun, but being that it was so choppy, we were forced to go slow.

There was one time I was able to get up to about 40 MPH, that speed felt goodl

I didn't have a problem docking because of the extra momentum. I had a problem with having zero steering in reverse. I was just wondering why more weight would cause the angle of the prop to become ineffective.


Anyway, if we can get past the fact that I didn't endanger anyone's lives because I was irresponsible, I'd like to continue this conversation. There's a lot of great information to learn here. I don't want to plan to have more than 6 people anymore, but if it ever happens, I want to have a better understanding of the factors involved.

Just like flying an airplane. It handles differently as you get closer to gross weight.

Steve

 

[sschefer]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Two thing come to mind when I read your last post. One, why did you post the question if you already knew the answer. Two, you might understand aerodynamics but you don't know squat about hydro dynamics.

 

[Steve91T]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Two thing come to mind when I read your last post. One, why did you post the question if you already knew the answer. Two, you might understand aerodynamics but you don't know squat about hydro dynamics.

That's why I'm asking the question! The only reason I said I was a pilot was so that maybe people would give me more credit about not being overloaded.

I don't understand hydrodynamics. That's why I'm here, to learn more.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

nobody said you were grossly unsafe.... the fellow with 800 lbs in a john boat rated for 450 was pushing it tho.....

The boat leaning far more than it steered was because it was very heavily loaded.... you also did not distribute the load to balance... IE "hey, someone needs to move to the right....... ah much better"..... even a much bigger boat with fewer people runs better with a balanced load... You need to balance front to back too..... way too many people on the bow and the drive trimmed way up to compensate can make for a tippy mushy ride

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Steve, It sounds like your bowrider handles a lot like my bowrider when you have a full boat. In a lot of respesct it is the nature of the beast. If you want to get on plane, you need to have folks in the bow. When you have folks in the bow and everywhere else, the boat handles like a barge. If anyone has ever driven a full bowrider, you know what I mean.

I think it is normal, and you are fine. Just be careful....

 

[sschefer]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

That's why I'm asking the question! The only reason I said I was a pilot was so that maybe people would give me more credit about not being overloaded.

I don't understand hydrodynamics. That's why I'm here, to learn more.

O.K. I understand. In reality what you are experiencing is a form of chine walking. It's not like my 18' bowrider falling off and healing over at 56mph but the effect of adding more power to help correct it, as in your case, is the same thing we do when we say we're powering through the chinewalk. Basically what you're doing is using the pressure of the water to lift that chine out of the water and stop it from steering the boat. This is also why it's really hard to handle in reverse at the dock.

Here's a quick way to learn the effects and understand how to load your particular boat. Go out on a calm day and at an in-gear idle set the boat to steer straight ahead while your sitting at the helm. Now walk to the stern dead center and see if your boat doesn't start to turn. Walk from side to side and notice the effect of shifting the weight. I think you'll be suprised. I do course corrections this way with my boat when I'm trolling.

So once you done your experiment I think you'll agree as to what a big part the chines play in all this. When you have one chine sunk down more than the other, you're going to be compensating for that at the helm.. It's like the boat is constantly trying to turn so it heals over.

 

[sw33ttooth]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

don't be timid about shifting the ballast. Just don't call a girl "ballast" if she has a paddle in reach.

might want to add, a paddle in reach, or fishing pole, or other like wise objects.

as for your wieght issue lets take a look average; 150 x 9 people = 1350 lbs
now add fuel tank 20 gallons? x 8 pounds a gallon = 160 lbs
cooler, life vest, anchor, other oddeties = 50 lbs

total average wieght = 1560
max wieght = 1650
100 lbs off max and that is all guess work.
your boat is rated to carry so much wight saftly and you did how ever the deeper into the water the hull is, the more displacement you have. i bet you made one hell of a wake with that thing

 

[AZSenza]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

I've got a 5.7 merc powered 22ft Larson rated for 12 people. For some strange reason, if you opted for the 7.4 Merc, it was rated for 13. Anyway, we've had 12 on board before, now granted, most were kids, but we had a big full cooler, towables etc. Boat was great, aside from taking a little longer to get on plane, i didn't notice any handling differences. My last boat, a 17 foot 4Winns 5.7 Merc powered with Bennet Tabs would feel different with 8 aboard, mainly kids (max rating). The trim tabs made a huge difference though and I was able to control it with little effort. Bottom line is with the bigger boat, I feel much less influence with added load than the smaller one.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

The weight of the fuel is not part of the equation on a craft with a factory permanently mounted fuel tank.

However.... running with less fuel will help (although not in the eyes of the law) if the boat is to be otherwise heavily loaded and not going far.

 

[Thajeffski]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

9 adults on a 20 ft boat? And you claim not to be overloaded... hmm

 

[QC]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Jeez guys. Knock it off. He has explained his situation, he has explained his semi-related background. He has asked not get beat up about overloading anymore, and posted his flippin' data plate. Let's help with the other stuff.

Other stuff: I have experience with single prop I/O drives. And I have experience with heavily loaded examples too, and I do not recall any load induced steering difficulty other than a need for more power input to overcome the increased inertia. Depending on wind, all I/Os, and especially single prop I/Os, have difficulty backing . . . however, my experience with a right hand prop is poor backing to port, not starboard as I think you are describing. It is very easy to get locked into a backing situation with no steering, and wind can actually make that either direction. If the amount of wind pushing on the bow is equal to the force of the severely handicapped propeller and hull performance in reverse, then she'll crab along angled sideways either way. With no wind, again, I think the issue is to port, and I remember it by saying to myself "port problem" . . . Now I'm gonna test it again.

BTW, I have noticed that wakeless speed goes up with increased loads. Stands to reason as you displace more water and the waterline goes up.

 

[Steve91T]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

I'm sorry, but I'm getting pissed. I told you exactly how many people I had, and how much they weighed. What is the problem! I was well under the max weight of the boat! Period!

I'm a little disappointed with this forum. I tell you I'm safely within the limits, and I just wanted to know from the "experienced" boaters on this forum, what was going on with my boat. Hydrodynamicsly speaking.

How can you guys actually still feel like I was overloaded when I told you exactly what I had on board?

I don't know, sometimes I feel like this board is full of people who are quick to criticize "newer" boaters. This is my 3rd boat. But I am willing to admit this is my first time I've had a boat at max capacity. I admit that I want to have experienced boaters learn me and this is what I get? Guys, read my posts! Read the information I'm giving you!

I'm sorry, but it's frustrating when everyone here keeps telling me I'm overloaded, which means I was illegal, and more importantly unsafe.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

I'm sorry, but I'm getting pissed. I told you exactly how many people I had, and how much they weighed. What is the problem! I was well under the max weight of the boat! Period!

I'm a little disappointed with this forum. I tell you I'm safely within the limits, and I just wanted to know from the "experienced" boaters on this forum, what was going on with my boat. Hydrodynamicsly speaking.

How can you guys actually still feel like I was overloaded when I told you exactly what I had on board?

I don't know, sometimes I feel like this board is full of people who are quick to criticize "newer" boaters. This is my 3rd boat. But I am willing to admit this is my first time I've had a boat at max capacity. I admit that I want to have experienced boaters learn me and this is what I get? Guys, read my posts! Read the information I'm giving you!

I'm sorry, but it's frustrating when everyone here keeps telling me I'm overloaded, which means I was illegal, and more importantly unsafe.

Don't worry about it, just make sure you are not towing with anything smaller than a Peterbilt and they'll leave youu alone

In my 19ft, I notice quite a bit of extra lean in the corners if I'm near max load and my passengers are not really well balanced side to side. I just get them to move around till we find a happy spot.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

One way to help your maneuverability when backing: Bravo 3 dual prop outdrive.

 

[QC]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Oh that's gonna make him happy. Un-flippin'-believable. I am embarrassed by our inability to be welcoming

Steve,

Does this thing have a hydrofoil on the outdrive? Can you post a pic of your drive? I apologize for our attitude

 

[Steve91T]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Oh that's gonna make him happy. Un-flippin'-believable. I am embarrassed by our inability to be welcoming

Steve,

Does this thing have a hydrofoil on the outdrive? Can you post a pic of your drive? I apologize for our attitude

No worries. I've gotten a lot of great information and help from this forum. I'm not going to let this ruin my experience.

It's just your standard Alpha One with Smart Tabs.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

steve, there are several types of people on this board, just like at the marina, and one very annoying group are the crotchety old men who think that (a) all boating is the same, and is only like their preferences, and (b) there are absolute "rules" to how one should do his boating. They post with a lot of bold print, capital letters and exclamation points, like if someone mentions drinking a beer they say NO BOOZE ON MY BOAT EVER!!!!!! and I doubt they have many friends, that their children like them very much, and I pity their wives.
Many of these types have only engaged in one style of "boating" their entire lives and think that their style is the only form of boating, and the word "boat" is confined to their hull style.

Luckily, there are also experienced boaters here who know the variety of boats, environments and purposes. A commercial crabber knows a hell a of alot more about boating than the "weekend warrior" but he doesn't go around with a lot of "always" and "nevers." He's too smart and experienced for that.

So ignore the ones who jump all over the slightest hint of "doing it wrong." Boating is a whole lot more about good judgment than arbitrary rules. Experienced boating comes from expirimentation, not reading a manual. Most of the questions that provoke the ham-fisted responses are the ones that don't give all the circumstances ('should I tow my boat with my station wagon') but the self-annointed experts leap in with the absolute answers anyway.

But likewise, some boating questions, like the 4 year old's incessant "why?" just don't have an answer. Boats behave in different ways due to so many factors. Perhaps the way yours operated that day is just how that boat is, in those conditions, and to change things, just experiment, or accept it. I have what is essentially a work boat that I drive with very heavy loads and each time it acts differently, and nothing like the "normal" some guys here know, but that's just what it does. Tide and even water depth affects its performance. May take almost a half mile to get on a plane. It has served 7 owners well for 13 years, though.
Stick around and ignore the old men on the bench over there.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Had my boat at max capacity, I have some questions...

Ya know..... it goes both ways..... Who exactly are you so pissed at? Broad statements about the board not being welcoming and "everybody" harping on being overweight are also not productive..... I for one and several others have been very politely trying to give the best advice possible.
Yeah, when this started I suspected that you might have been overweight and encouraged you too be sure but I never insulted you. Several others have conducted themselves just as well.