Hard start weak out of the hole- Evinrude e120tlerc

[jimbobcooter]

So they installed the thermostats and it is still running cold. Apparently there is excessive water pressure (10psi) at the block keeping it from coming up to operating temperature. Apparently when cold it should only be around 3psi. Their first check was to ensure that the water pump was correct which they verified (good to know I did that correctly)! They are going to continue trouble shooting.

Does anyone know what would cause this situation? Excessive water pressure causing water to blow by the thermostats. Any thought would be appreciated.

 

[jimbobcooter]

As of today all the mechanics and the traveling Evinrude service tech are all stumped when it comes to my motor! They have checked everything they can think of and are currently "scratching their heads!" They said that t-stats and everything with the water pump is correct and working. I guess the Evinrude tech is going to do some research and get back with them.

Any thoughts on what could be keeping the engine from coming up to temp?

If they can't get it figured out...what do I have to worry about:
Excessive plug fouling?
Excessive carbon build up?
Poor gas mileage?
Will it just mean extra maintenance (plugs and de-carb)?
Performance is going to suffer?

 

[jimmbo]

Perhaps the water return pipe/passage is restricted, forcing the water pressure up. I am assuming the engine has a recirculating cooling system.

 

[oldboat1]

Testing temp on muffs? Barrel test it -- let it idle in a deep barrel or large trash can and monitor temp. Keep the hose running to keep the level up.

[Edit. Also, recent post on prop venting to improve hole shots, with SB instructions: http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...7367-3-cyl-evinrude-70-bogging-problem-solved Maybe something to consider.]

 

[jimbobcooter]

Thanks for the input jimmbo & oldboat1! I will check with them about the return passage. I would assume that they are testing in a tank and not just on muffs since it is at a certified mechanic, but I will confirm.

Hope they get this sorted out soon!

 

[Fed]

The VRO pulse line goes to cylinder #3.

 

[jimmbo]

I looked at the water flow drawing in the dealer service manual. You don't have to bother asking about a water return pipe, your engine doesn't use a recirculating cooling system

 

[jimbobcooter]

The VRO pulse line goes to cylinder #3.

Fed can you elaborate on your post please #26?

 

[Fed]

It's never happened to me but my understanding is that a holed fuel pump diaphragm can allow fuel to be drawn directly into the crankcase of the cylinder that the pulse line is connected to causing that cylinder to run rich.

Your pulse line is connected to #3 which is the lower starboard cylinder crankcase.

Not sure how to check it, probably something simple like remove the pulse line from the pump after running & see if there's any fuel in it.

 

[jimbobcooter]

Thanks for the clarification Fed. I will mention that to them if they can ever figure out what is causing it to run cold.

I am pretty fed up with the shop. It has been a month that they have had my boat and 3 weeks since they first looked at it. I am about to pull it out of there. The problem is there are not that many Evinrude shops in town.

If it is running on all cylinders...Will it hurt it to run cold? Could I just run it cold and put new plugs in & de-carb it as needed?

 

[Fed]

It's all academic until the shop has finished with it, see where you stand when you get it back.

 

[jimbobcooter]

Finally got a fire to light under the shop! It was noticed that water was pouring out of the ports just above the cavitation plate despite the motor being under normal operating temp. Next they removed the thermostats and noticed that there was exhaust getting into the thermo cavity. They removed the heads and saw there was a lot of sludge/oil/carbon build up in the #3 cylinder, but the gasket and all looked to be fine! Since the head gaskets were ok...they went to the base gasket next.

After removing the power head they found that the center of the base gasket had gone bad (apparently simply due to old age). Once gaskets are replaced and everything put back together they are going to decry and tune. Should have it back next week!!!

I will post anymore details I found out. I would have never figure this out! Thanks everyone for the info/support!

 

[jimbobcooter]

I want to write so many 4 letter words right now! The shop replaced the base gasket and put everything back together and it didn't NOT fix the problem! No more exhaust in the thermostat passages, but she will still not get up to temp! She stays at 90ish degrees and is running 11psi right at start up when it should be running 3 to 5psi max! They are now going to turn their attention to the water pump housing. Their last chance I hope it is not a 3rd strike!

Anyone have any ideas what could cause excessive water pressure? Low operating temp?

 

[Fed]

Muffs or tank? That question was never answered.

I read in another thread this morning where Bruce58 suggested you cannot increase the block water pressure with muffs but I sort of disagree.

My own motor 90HP V4 never gets hot on muffs with the tap fully open. (Water Mains pressure probably 60 or so PSI)

 

[jimbobcooter]

Muffs. Which the shop claims usually has the opposite effect causing motors to often not achieve the typical 3-5psi.

 

[oldboat1]

pressure too high/too low..... Why would somebody knowingly use a system (muffs) that produced -- or likely produced -- something out of the norm? Think I wouldn't have any more work done until it was tried in the lake or in a tank. JMO.

Think there is some general agreement, anyway, that you can't adequately test an outboard cooling system running on muffs. Rule of thumb is that you can't fine tune it that way either.

 

[jimbobcooter]

Muffs. Which the shop claims usually has the opposite effect causing motors to often not achieve the typical 3-5psi. Called them and they said it was worth a shot!

 

[jimbobcooter]

She was placed in the tank at the shop and there was actually slightly more water pressure than when they had it on the muffs (hose not turned all the way up). The examined the water pump housing to ensure the a passage was not blocked (forget what it was called blow out maybe?). No issues with the water pump.

They talked to a former OMC employee that said some other engines (70 & 90hp V4s I think) would have issues on muffs and in the tank b/c of a lack of back pressure...they are going to take it to the lake tomorrow and try troubleshooting at the ramp.

They are also concerned that the Quickstart is not disengaging. My understanding is that the quick start provides advanced timing and extra fuel...thus higher rpms. With higher rpms comes more water! While at the ramp they are going to ground out the quick start circuit of the power pack to see if that is the issue. New pack (current one is under warranty from last year) is on order so they can replace (at no cost) if that is the issue.

I am really hoping they are successful tomorrow! I think the shop and I are both at our wits ends. Thanks everyone for the help. Boy am I glad I did not try to keep working on her myself!

 

[jimbobcooter]

HELP!!!!!! New power pack and still no better. Still got too much water and a block that will not get up to temp.

I am b/w a rock and a hard place. Should I take it to another authorized service tech? Should I let them keep trying? If I take it somewhere else I get some new eyes on it, but I will be at the back of the line (prob a wk or 2 wait)! If I leave it at the current shop it seems to never get fixed.

Any advice? Any other suggestions on what could cause this issue? Can/should I run the engine not a full operating temp?

 

[jimbobcooter]

The shop called and they have it up to temp ~140! After reaching out to Evinrude and even past builders they came up with placing an oversized overflow valve(?) in the cooling system allowing more water to exit the cooling system thru the overflow circuit. Sounds like they decided to rig it does it not? They took it to the lake with not issues and said that they are not concerned about overheating. Going to pick it up this afternoon and should be able to run it on Tues at the latest. Thanks everyone! Will add info if there is anything to update.