Having your boat searched?

hubbard53

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
212
Re: Having your boat searched?

Probably 'cause they spend more on welfare,and other "projects" that allow my tax dollars to be spent on lazy,useless citizens who end up using ACLU lawyers to defend there actions....look up 5 Rivers in SC and read about Charlie Condon being payed to defend two sisters who stole millions to fund there lifestyle.......

i really should not bash the democratic party, they're simply running on what people want to hear - its all about delivery, right?

PEOPLE want to be taken care of by the government but dont realize there is another side to that. There is no free lunch - if they're paying your way, you're gonna do it their way. . . its kinda like coming home from college as a kid and being told if you live under your parent's roof, you abide by their rules.

We pay for a larger civil police force because who DOESN'T want less crime? It sounds good, right? UNtil they start harassing you...that's why people always ask "why you harassing me when there are killers and rapists still on the streets?

Is there some sort of boaters lobby group? Seems there would be a lot of support for getting some of these warrant-less laws changed. Maybe the ACLU should take the case?
 

ThePostMan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
75
Re: Having your boat searched?

Wow. . .AlamoSaddles, you must be a lot of fun at a party! I appreciate the diatribe and all, but you swung and missed.

Again. . .LE is more than welcome to board a vessel, you are correct. Count PFDs, check the expiration date on my flares, blow my horn, unscrew the bulbs in my running lights and check the filaments. Even give me a field sobriety test if they smell alcohol or suspect impairment.

However, said LEOs will NOT be opening any tackle boxes, gear lockers, hatches, or any other sealed personal property without a warrant to do so. All LE has the ability to infringe on some privacies by invoking PC and acting in the interest of public safety, but you bet your sweet bippy that the 4th Amendment will apply when that infringement crosses the line between protecting the public safety and invading personal privacy for non-related reasons.

I am too tired to log into Westlaw and cite some case law for you, but I assure you I am correct.
 

sunaj

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
109
Re: Having your boat searched?

Reading this thread 2 things become apparent, a large group of boaters don't seem to mind if Law enfarctment violates their space and boards their boat, goes thru their personal belongings etc., and the other group despises this violation of their property but haven't (apparently) started any real meaningful protest on this issue, so a lot of people are asking, "where do I sign up?"
 

Andy in NY

Commander
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
2,109
Re: Having your boat searched?

I would like to add my 2 cents...


I am an avid supporter of the peoples rights. Working in radio, I have had my share if head to heads concerning the 1st amemdment. I have been to several seminars and what not.

I will admit that I know very little on the 4th. I firmly believe that I should not have to prove that I am not a criminal, rather the law should prove that I am. If I were to be asked anywhere other than a border crossing or by a border patrol agent to search my vehicle, my first question would certainly be on what grounds. I would rather sit there all day then "give in" to them.

That being said, I think that the people arguing for the 4th amemdment regarding boats saying that they cannot search without a warrent are wrong. Don't misunderstand, that is the side I am on. But after reading the full article regarding vessles, the proof is in the pudding.

Vessel Searches.--Not only is the warrant requirement
inapplicable to brief stops of vessels, but also none of the safeguards
applicable to stops of automobiles on less than probable cause are
necessary predicates to stops of vessels. In United States v.
Villamonte-Marquez,\74\ the Court upheld a random stop and boarding of a
vessel by customs agents, lacking any suspicion of wrongdoing, for
purpose of inspecting documentation. The boarding was authorized by
statute derived from an act of the First Congress,\75\ and hence had
``an impressive historical pedigree'' carrying with it a presumption of
constitutionality. Moreover, ``important factual differences between
vessels located in waters offering ready access to the open sea and
automobiles on principal thoroughfares in the border area'' justify
application of a less restrictive rule for vessel searches. The reason
why random stops of vehicles have been held impermissible under the
Fourth Amendment, the Court explained, is that stops at fixed
checkpoints or roadblocks are both feasible and less subject to abuse of
discretion by authorities. ``But no reasonable claim can be made that
permanent checkpoints would be practical on waters such as these where
vessels can move in any direction at any time and need not follow
established `avenues' as automobiles must do.''\76\ Because there is a
``substantial'' governmental interest in enforcing documentation laws,
``especially in waters where the need to deter or apprehend smugglers is
great,'' the Court found the ``limited'' but not ``minimal'' intrusion
occasioned by boarding for documentation inspection to be
reasonable.\77\ Dis

[[Page 1242]]
senting Justice Brennan argued that the Court for the first time was
approving ``a completely random seizure and detention of persons and an
entry onto private, noncommercial premises by police officers, without
any limitations whatever on the officers' discretion or any safeguards
against abuse.''\78\

\74\462 U.S. 579 (1983). The opinion of the Court, written by
Justice Rehnquist, was joined by Chief Justice Burger and by Justices
White, Blackmun, Powell, and O'Connor. Justice Brennan's dissent was
joined by Justice Marshall and, on mootness but not on the merits, by
Justice Stevens.
\75\19 U.S.C. Sec. 1581(a), derived from Sec. 31 of the Act of
Aug. 4, 1790, ch.35, 1 Stat. 164.
\76\462 U.S. at 589. Justice Brennan's dissent argued that a
fixed checkpoint was feasible in this case, involving a ship channel in
an inland waterway. id. at at 608 n.10. The fact that the Court's
rationale was geared to the difficulties of law enforcement in the open
seas suggests a reluctance to make exceptions to the general rule. Note
as well the Court's later reference to this case as among those
``reflect[ing] longstanding concern for the protection of the integrity
of the border.'' United States v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531,
538 (1985).
\77\462 U.S. at 593.
\78\462 U.S. at 598. Justice Brennan contended that all previous
cases had required some ``discretion-limiting'' feature such as a
requirement of probable cause, reasonable suspicion, fixed checkpoints
instead of roving patrols, and limitation of border searches to border
areas, and that these principles set forth in Delaware v. Prouse (supra
p.1239, n.63) should govern. 462 U.S. at 599, 601.


taken from here
 

beilwing

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
34
Re: Having your boat searched?

It appears to me that more and more people are willing to give up their freedoms for safety. I didn't count , but there were a lot of post that said "I'm not doing anything wrong so why should it matter?". That puts way to much faith in leo or the law for that mattar. I'm ok with the whole inspection thing but not with searches. There are too many control happy barney fife types out there. I am completely respectful to the twra when I get inspected (so far twice in the two monthes that I've been a boater), but I see the same trends in water cops that I see in land ones. And the laws themselves are getting rediculous. Are we trying to soften the edges on everything so dumb people don't bump their heads. We are making it too hard for gool ol Chuck Darwin to do his job, which means more and more stupid people are breeding. I weep for the world our grandchildren will know.
 

greggholmes

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
95
Re: Having your boat searched?

In washington i was safety inspected by the county police at the ramp, I passed and he gave me a sticker thats good for a year. It was on the 4th of july so there where alot of law about. the city had there boat out and as they approached i held up my sticker and they waved and turned off to check other people .
 

jeeperman

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
1,513
Re: Having your boat searched?

There are also a lot of huff and puff, chest beaters that say no way would they let any LEO search their boat without a warrant.

Until it is their turn to be boarded and asked if it is okay to search the boat.
Then they do the opposite of what they post here, sit down shut up and say yes sir, no sir.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
3
Re: Having your boat searched?

I think it depends on the situation and how respectful they are to my boat. I have never had anyone without proper authority board my boat. However, I was boarded by the US Coast Guard on the Hudson River for a safety check and a non-invasive search. I suppose I passed the safety check since the Coast Guard officer let me hold his shotgun after I set down my beer... (No I wasn't drinking while operating my boat, I was tied up at a marina.)
 

greggholmes

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
95
Re: Having your boat searched?

but no authority anywhere in the country can search anything without a warrant, unless you consent to it.


:D

Yes they can. you have to look up your local and state laws...

edited:: RCW 77.15.094
Search without warrant -- Seizure of evidence, property -- Limitation.

Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers may make a reasonable search without warrant of a vessel, conveyances, vehicles, containers, packages, or other receptacles for fish, seaweed, shellfish, and wildlife which they have reason to believe contain evidence of a violation of law
 

gonefishin485

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
108
Re: Having your boat searched?

well ive never actually been stopped on the water, but i have been asked for my fishing liscense, probably because i was carrying a stringer full of white trout down a marina pier, but thats about it, usually their pretty friendly around here, not to say their arent a few bad eggs out there, here again, like a lot of people have said, i dont have anything to hide, but if they asked to search to my boat, i believe i would have to ask them on what basis.

funny story though, i was actually stopped by a park ranger in grand isle state park.
they hit the lights on the truck, got on the PA and told us to pull over, the woman got out of the truck, strutted up to our truck window, and said, i pulled you over for drinking and ....................ohh, im sorry those silver barq's root beer cans look an awful like coors light cans.
lol, that was the best, we all ended up getting a good laugh out of it, and actually got an appology from the park ranger!
 
Top