Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

[ezeke]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Clean the rust on the cylinder a little with fine emery cloth - just enough to get it smooth. You can clean the piston top with a wire brush.

Don't forget to re-torque the cylinder head bolts after the initial break-in when the gasket has seated.

I would recommend that you de-carb and regularly use a carbon treatment in your fuel.

You might want to use the BRP hose clamps if you are going to stay with the cable ties - they are ramped so they fit around the hose and make a better seal.

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Do I use any type of sealer on the head gaskets when I put the new ones on?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I would.

 

[epjman]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

How did everything work out after the work was completed? I have a 94 Johnson 115 with similar problems, I'm going to venture down the same path. Did you do compression check following repairs? Do you have the results. Do you use the 3M 847 sealant on both sides of head gasket?

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I ordered the parts from iboats yesterday. They shipped the same day. Great prices. I ended up ordering the two hoses that go between the thermostat housing and the engine head. When I removed the heads, the hoses got damaged -- but they were cheap.


I plan to put the head gaskets on this weekend and try it out.
Once I get this done and verify the engine runs with good compression (I'll post the numbers here when I am done), I plan to follow Ezeke's advice and rebuild to carbs.

Regarding your question, I assumed I'd be putting 847 on both sides of the gasket, But never really thought about it,

Can Anyone give us a answer

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I put the new head gaskets on today... unfortunately, I'm not happy with the result:

I am still getting water in cylinder #3. And I believe it is worse than before.
I did torque the heads down to 20 lbs/ft and I torqued them in the corrected order according to the service manual. Starting in the center and working my way outward.

I used permatex super high tack on the gasket -- coated both sides.

Compression on cylinder 1, 2, and 4 is 120lbs +/- 3 psi.
I couldn't do #3, it's too wet.

The engine runs, and not too badly -- but obviously it'll water lock on me.

I'm rather frustrated and would greatly appreciate some advice on my next steps.

Thanks!

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I pulled the head for cylinder 1 and 3 again.
Could not see any obvious damage to the gasket.

Cleaned the head and the block again -- getting rid of all the permatex high tack.
Replaced the head gasket again with new ( I ordered 3 ) this time coating it with that copper spray stuff.
I very carefuly replaced the head making absolutely certain the gasket was not pinched or bent.
I tightened, in order, to 10 lbs, then 15 lbs and finally 20 lbs

Same results -- Cylinder 3 has water.

Where could this water be coming from????
I am looking at a new powerhead?

 

[guitman32]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Just a thought but did you inspect the condition of the gasket mounting surfaces on the block and head? Perhaps an abrasion or score is allowing water to seep into the cylinder?

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Thanks!
I carefully cleaned both the block and the head. I didn't feel anything odd after they were cleaned.

It seems that water might be entering the cylinder after the engine is turned off.

If I pull the plug immediately after I shutdown, only a little water, after it sits for a few minutes, there is quite a bit more.

For those familar with the Turbojet, I do turn the water off just before I shut down the engine.

Does this help anyone give me an idea where this is coming from?
There is a 1997 Turbojet engine on ebay -- I'm getting tempted...

 

[ezeke]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

You may have exhaust cover gaskets leaking or you may be applying too much water pressure from your water source. The system has a 20 PSI limit in normal operation controlled by a relief valve in the impeller housing.

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I don't believe it is water pressure -- I have been using the same hose/setup for years and I'm careful not to put too much pressure on the hose.

Ezeke, Can you comfirm that the gasket your are talking about is number 46 in the picture attached?

Thanks!

 

[ezeke]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I don't believe it is water pressure -- I have been using the same hose/setup for years and I'm careful not to put too much pressure on the hose.

Ezeke, Can you comfirm that the gasket your are talking about is number 46 in the picture attached?

Thanks!

46 and 71.

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I tried to remove the exhaust manifold -- Holy cow! some of those bolts were tight! fortunately none of them broke.

However, There is one -- 1 -- that I cannot get enough leverage to remove. The muffler is in the way.
Even if I were to remove it, there is no way I could properly re-torque the bolts in the limited space that I have.

So, I'm gonna pull the engine.
I'm still considering a new powerhead... We'll see once I get this darned thing pulled.

At least I'll have an opportunity to change the thermostats.

Is there anything I should know about removing the muffler once I have the engine removed? It looks like there are 6 bolts holding it together. I'm guessing they'll put up a fight.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

No, you just need the gasket. There's usually a lot of carbon in the muffler, so be careful where you put it. If you are going to pull the powerhead off the adapter once you have the engine off the gearcase, you don't need to remove the muffler, so it's one or the other.

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Will this saga ever end...
I purchased a used motor off eBay. A 1997 (mine is a 1996)
For clarity this is J/E 115 bubbleback.
I replaced the thermostats as directed (what a mess!) It was not easy getting all that shoved in there and screwed shut.

I fired up the eBay engine and it is also getting water in cylinder 3.
Now my first thought was too much water pressure on the drive. I am usually very careful, but neverless, I backed the pressure way down. Still getting water in number 3, although not as much -- not enough to water lock it.

I know the jet drive has a pressure release value -- if that was clogged, would that cause this problem?
Or is there something else I should consider? (like a new Novurania?)

Thanks guys -- so far this has been extremely educational and a bit fun.

 

[TVH]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I can only offer this comment..."you are a very patient man" I hope you get this problem resolved, I have been following your posts and learning, best wishes.

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Thanks! and I'm glad my troubles can provide some help to others.

Prior to attempting this, I had never worked on this motor. So far it is been rather straight-forward.

I hoping to get some additional insight here. I am leaning towards putting my old engine back it. I have new exhaust manifold gaskets and a few more head gaskets -- I only need another thermostat kit. I removed the exhaust manifold and the gasket (not the cover gasket) was pretty mangled. Lots of odd swelling and very gooey.

Believe it or not, pulling the engine was very easy, although the service manual didn't mention things like, removing the throttle cable, disconnecting the hot and ground wire, and disconnecting the 2 wiring harnesses. The most difficult part was putting the new engine on the Jetdrive -- it is difficult to align that shaft when you can't see -- and the braile method is not a good idea if you wanna keep all 10 of you digits intact. Never-the-less, it 15 minutes, after about 100 trys, it connected and all was well.

I have no doubt that the experts here will come to my rescue -- again.
I think I probably owe Ezeke and Tashasdaddy a Mediterranean cruise by now!

 

[GatorMike]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

I have been struggling with the exact same problem with my 115. My history is a little longer than yours though. I started noticing rust on the lower left spark plug a couple of years ago. I ignored it and after my motor sat up for several months last year it rusted up solid. I ended up rebuilding it this spring. The lower right cyl was rusted tight and the piston had to be pressed out. The lower left was also rusted but a few taps with a hammer got that piston out. The other 2 had surface rust but not bad. I replaced the pistons and had #3 bored out .030 over. After rebuilding I had good compression and she ran great but I had some suspicions that the lower left cyl may still be getting some moisture in it.

I was watching it and checking my plugs and examining the cylinders with a flash light regularly. I just had a feeling about that lower left cyl. Sure enough a couple of weeks ago I went out and she was missing. When I got time to check it out my fears were confirmed, water in the lower left and possibly lower right cyls. My compression was still good and I really can find no evidence of water getting in around the head gaskets. I pulled the exhaust cover and I think the problem is the exhaust manifold. I'm sanding both heads and the exhaust manifold flat and am going to put her back together and see what I have got.

Good luck with yours. I will keep you posted on mine.

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Thanks for the reply.
I am replacing the exhaust manifold gaskets this week, and cylinder 1/3 will get a new head gasket.
I'll try to post a few pics tomorrow.

I pulled my thermostat housing and it looks suprisingly good. But my engine also has had a sea strainer attached.

I have been thinking about what Ezeke said about too much water pressure in the system, causing water to back up in the cylinder. (this is only a problem with the turbo jet setup)
I order the following pressure regulator.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WATTS-Pressure-Regulator-5AJ90?cm_mmc=Google%20Base-_-Plumbing-_-Valves-_-5AJ90
I can then control the pressure I a flushing with.

I have a question:
What are you guys using the clean the gaskets off? The thermostat gaskets are espically difficult and aluminum is very soft.

 

[modernrocketry]

Re: Head Gasket or New powerhead or ????

Here are some pictures of the water jacket, the exhaust manifold and the block.

The gasket on the exhaust manifold looks very bad. My task tonight is to clean these up and get them ready for new gaskets.