Head Problems...I'm stumped!

[Trooper583]

We have a Silverton 322 Aft Cabin Cruiser that has a fore and aft head. last week when we went out, I noticed that a strong waste odor was present in the salon after just a few minutes. The odor was present all day until we returned to the marina. Once there, the smell went away after a few hours. I am guess that this has to be a vent problem of some type (i.e. don't start smelling anything until we move and the waste gets sloshed around). The strangest part is that I cannot identify where the odor is actually coming from. I have checked the holding tank hose connections all tight and double clamped, I have made sure that the hoses are not permeating the odor, There is zero liquid in the bilge as well as zero odor in the bilge. There is no odor in the actual head either. I should also say that I have the Jabsco 37010 electric flush toilets. Finally, I have checked to make sure that the vent hose from the holding tank is clear and the holding tank is not full.

any help is much appreciated as usual! Thanks

 

[arks]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

Some questions-
-Do you smell it inside or outside the cabin, or both?
-Do you use a holding tank treatment?
-Does your boat have a vent filter?
-Where does your A/C condensate go?
-Are you positively sure that there is no trapped bilge water somewhere?
My older Silverton had an inaccessible bilge section under the steps in the cabin.
I had to cut an access port to get the water out. That solved my 'stink' problem.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

If it is a vent issue, which it might be, then your best bet is to install a vent filter. You simply cut the vent hose approximately 1/2 way up and install the filter inline. It is a standard charcoal cartridge filter and should be switched out after approx 1 year. However, my concern would be why you started to notice the odor now and never before?

 

[Trooper583]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

Some questions-
-Do you smell it inside or outside the cabin, or both? Inside the cabin only
-Do you use a holding tank treatment? No, I haven't tried any treatment of any kind
-Does your boat have a vent filter? Not sure but pretty confident it does not.
-Where does your A/C condensate go? Shower Sump boxes (recently replaced)
-Are you positively sure that there is no trapped bilge water somewhere? I went to great pains to insure that all the bilges were dry and clean. With that said, my boat has this same location that you speak of but the odor is not coming from that area.
My older Silverton had an inaccessible bilge section under the steps in the cabin.
I had to cut an access port to get the water out. That solved my 'stink' problem.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[oops!]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

im certain this is a filter problem.......

can you get the manual for the boat?

 

[Trooper583]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

It just occurred to me that some additional info might be of help. We purchased this boat in March of this year. Prior to this, it had seen a period of around 2-3 years with little to no use. I had to go through and spend about two days with a shop vac, a squirt bottle with bleach in it and a scrub brush cleaning the bilges. Once I had the bilges clean and dry, the odor that existed seemed to disappear. For the following 5 to 6 weeks we worked on the boat in the slip and used the head all the while with no odor as described above whatsoever. Again, once we went out the odor reappeared.

"Oops", I don't think that we have the manual for the holding system. The more I think about how this odor is happening the more it makes sense that there must be a inline charcoal vent. Perhaps I didn't see it the other day when I followed all the hoses throughout the holding system. Maybe I didn't see it because I wasn't looking for it.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

Start at the holding tank. There will be the large white 'incoming' hoses and then the smaller 'outgoing' hoses to the wastegate and macerator (if equipped). There will be a single 5/8" hose coming from the tank which runs to a side thru-hull port. This is your vent. Follow the hose to see if there is an inline filter cartridge. If the filters get wet from the tank getting overfilled or someone spraying water in from the outside (thru the vent) while washing, it will ruin the filter. BTW, they run $75-$100.

This may sound stupid, but with your vessel having two heads, are you sure you don't have a second holding tank?

 

[Trooper583]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

Start at the holding tank. There will be the large white 'incoming' hoses and then the smaller 'outgoing' hoses to the wastegate and macerator (if equipped). There will be a single 5/8" hose coming from the tank which runs to a side thru-hull port. This is your vent. Follow the hose to see if there is an inline filter cartridge. If the filters get wet from the tank getting overfilled or someone spraying water in from the outside (thru the vent) while washing, it will ruin the filter. BTW, they run $75-$100.

This may sound stupid, but with your vessel having two heads, are you sure you don't have a second holding tank?

Thanks for the advice. I would say that the charcoal filter is a good possibility. My question is this: if the vent filter is bad, where exactly would the odors be escaping the system and in to the cabin? I am sure that there is only one holding tank, I traced One of the large supply hoses to the forward toilets. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[arks]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

You should consider a holding tank treatment/deodorant. Using it may solve your problem.
FWIW my boat doesn't even have a vent filter.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

Most odors come from ambient air being stirred up as the boat is moving. "Station wagon" effect. Pulls in outside air back into the cabin.

First have your tank emptied. When they pump it out, I always put back in about 4-5 gallons of water thru the deck hatch and then pump that back out. This helps clean out any clumps or left behind matter. If you don't pumkp out regularly (most don't if you're not a live-a-board), then add a holding tank deodorizer. This is the blue stuff for RV use. Sanitizers help a lot. Don't use bleach unless you're goning to pump out in a day or two.

Add 3-4 cups of bleach into your bilge with a bit of water and some bilge cleaner, then take the boat out for a run. Clean up when you get back. You may have hidden water deposits that are contributing to your odor problem.

 

[oops!]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

the link i am giving you .....is the manual for regal yachts....it does not matter if your boat is not a regal....

the head systems will be similar..... the link will explain how the systems work with diagrammes of the system.....where the filter should be.........all head systems should have a filter...... im certain this is the problem......... but the sanitisers and deodorants can never hurt.

fireman posted some great tips above

http://www.regalownersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81

 

[Trooper583]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

UPDATE: Ok guys here is the latest... A few days ago I had the holding tank pumped and added some treatment through the toilet as the product directed. When we had the tank pumped, it appeared that a significant amount of waste came out. We also decided to take a shop vac and reverse it so that it blew air out instead of sucking it in. We removed the cap from the pumpout fitting and gave it a short blast of air. When we did this, a large chunk of material shot out of a different through hull fitting. After further inspection, I found that our tank apparently has two vents. I attempted to trace the second vent fitting all the way back to to the tank. Due to the design of the boat, it is impossible to see the hose as it makes its way from the through hull to the tank. We felt quite confident that the combination of these things would fix the problem that we had encoutered with the odors. The following evening we went for about an hour cruise and anchored in a bay. Upon stopping, there was no odor. We started the generator and AC and began enjoying our night. A couple of hours after arriving, we noticed a strong odor developing once again. This time the odor seemed to be more of a rotten egg smell as opposed to a general "human waste" smell. Before going to bed we shut the generator down and opened the windows. By the morning the odor was gone and during our one hour cruise back to the marina, the odor never returned. I did notice that in the bilge compartment that houses the holding tank, there approximately a gallon of what appeared to be liquid from the holding tank. As i previously stated, my holding tank has two vents. I am 100% certain that one line does not have a charcoal filter. The other line I am not sure due to the fact that I cannot get to it. Sorry for the long post, any more ideas would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[seaman-recruit]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

I've heard that the rotten egg smell can come from a wet cell (lead acid) battery being charged with low water level in it. Don't know if you have that battery type but I assumed your charger was on while you had the genny fired while you were on the hook. (Also assuming you have 3 or 4 batteries in that size vessel)

 

[Scorpion210]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

Oh. That is a good suggestion on the battery. I just went through this at start up. I was away when it happened, but the marina I am at summerized my boat and plugged it in. Apparently, there were talks that my boat was smelling like sewage. This was strange since the boat had been pumped out to be winterized. It turned out that it was a bad battery and it had a sewage smell. It might explain why it happens while running as your alternator is adding a charge to the bad battery. However, I assume that you also plug in your boat and you would think it would continue at dock. You should check this possible source ASAP as the the battery materials can be explosive.

It doesn't seem to fit your circumstances but I read this on another post. It seemed to fit an earlier issue I had. No matter how clean my tank was or Bio-paks added, I would get a smell on flushing. My issue seemed to go away on its own. I never would have considered the possibility of having a small dead critter sucked in the water intake. The lady (Peggie Hall) on this forum certainly seems to know a lot about marine sanitation.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/my-head-smells-like-a-head-64963.html

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

UPDATE: Ok guys here is the latest... A few days ago I had the holding tank pumped and added some treatment through the toilet as the product directed. When we had the tank pumped, it appeared that a significant amount of waste came out. We also decided to take a shop vac and reverse it so that it blew air out instead of sucking it in. We removed the cap from the pumpout fitting and gave it a short blast of air. When we did this, a large chunk of material shot out of a different through hull fitting. After further inspection, I found that our tank apparently has two vents. I attempted to trace the second vent fitting all the way back to to the tank. Due to the design of the boat, it is impossible to see the hose as it makes its way from the through hull to the tank. We felt quite confident that the combination of these things would fix the problem that we had encoutered with the odors. The following evening we went for about an hour cruise and anchored in a bay. Upon stopping, there was no odor. We started the generator and AC and began enjoying our night. A couple of hours after arriving, we noticed a strong odor developing once again. This time the odor seemed to be more of a rotten egg smell as opposed to a general "human waste" smell. Before going to bed we shut the generator down and opened the windows. By the morning the odor was gone and during our one hour cruise back to the marina, the odor never returned. I did notice that in the bilge compartment that houses the holding tank, there approximately a gallon of what appeared to be liquid from the holding tank. As i previously stated, my holding tank has two vents. I am 100% certain that one line does not have a charcoal filter. The other line I am not sure due to the fact that I cannot get to it. Sorry for the long post, any more ideas would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

A friend that i boat with has the same problem. He has a 98 Silverton 33 sports bridge. I think the rotten egg smell is just the Gen.exhaust. His does the same thing. It doesn't get in the saloon though. He used to have a bad smell like it was from the holding tank. Do you have electric toilets? Take a rag and wet it,wrap it around your waste lines in the bilge. In a day or so take them out and if they have the same oder my guess is the lines are permeated and need replacing. Just my guess. Does your toilets fill the trap full? Maybe one is leaking through the gaskets. He just rebuilt his toilet and it seams to have fixed the problem. The seals start leaking.

 

[rbh]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

Sewage has that distictive smell, and hydrogen sulfide has that bitter rotten egg smell.
Time to pull the batteries and see which one is boiling off.
As you said you only smell it under way, your motors are running and charging.
If it has boiled off, I hope your batteries were in a good plastic holder or you could have an issue with the acid eating the fiberglass.
You may want to check you voltage regulator as a possible cause for the overcharging, could your batteries/battery have possibly froze up this year and split?

 

[Trooper583]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

I consider myself lucky on many accounts with this one. First, that I have a forum as useful as Iboats to help me solve these problems. Secondly that I did not cause an explosion from the gases released from a bad battery being charged. "Seaman-Recruit", I really appreciate your post. I knew that a battery being charged that was bad could give off a sulphur smell but I would have never thought of that. The battery for the generator has became increasingly weak over the past few weeks and I assumed it would need replacing soon. I plan on replacing the battery tonight and taking the boat out in the next few days. I am cautiously optimistic that these issues will be remedied. The odor of sewage was not present on our last outing so I believe that that issue is fixed. I believe with a new generator battery, all of the bad smells we have been experiencing will be gone. I will post the final results in a few days.

 

[Trooper583]

Re: Head Problems...I'm stumped!

I always like to post the end result of the issues that you guys frequently help me with. The short version is that I'm good to go. I replaced the gen battery, had the holding tank pumped and liberally utilized some holding tank treatment. 2-3 voyages later, everything is smelling great. Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions.