HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

[askmelater]

I have two 115HP Ficht motors.

The Port motor just developed a knock. Had a guy come out and hook it up to computer. Everything checked out. Thought the knock might be main crank bearing. It's very consistent.

I've been using West Marine TC-W3 oil since I got the boat used about 6 years ago. Mainly Trolling around 2700rpm.

Never had a manual and just learned about Ficht Oil. I've heard that is thinner perhaps. I'm in Hawaii and I'm not sure if anyone has that here.

DOES IT MATTER?

Also, I filled the oil up to the cap recently because I couldn't see the oil level in the two oil tanks in small battery compartment. It might have been full already and I just topped it off. Don't know if that really matters.

Restricting return oil line???

I pulled one of the Oil lines off the Oil Injector and at IDLE it pumps oil about every 10-15 seconds. About enough to cover a finger nail. NOT MUCH.

I figure that is all you get at idle speed. The Oil Pump pumps plenty.

BOTH MOTORS pumped the same amount of oil from Injector (fingernail worth)

I'm thinking about using a large meat syringe to push oil through all the oil lines to check for blockage and see if the noise goes away???

Does anyone know how the OIL INJECTOR is supposed to be pumping oil?

Do I need to use Ficht Oil? I'm wondering if I've been starving the system by using a slightly thicker oil (if that is actually correct?)

THANK YOU.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

If you're going to mess with important stuff on this motor, why not get an OEM shop manual before you wreck stuff guessing? Your ideas about checking oil consumption are dangerous, at best. I'm sure the shop manual covers the oil injection pump quite thoroughly.

The original oil recommendation from OMC (now BRP) was Ficht RAM oil, now I think it's BRP XD50 oil. I would never have used cheapo Worst Marine oil at all, but that's just me.

A metallic knock is usually very bad news, and is typically a precursor to a major mechanical failure, if it's coming from inside the block.

 

[Al-53]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Wildej1 is right....Evinrude makes a oil for those motors and so does Sierra and a few others....its made for oil injection...

the Evinrude I believe is X-100..designed for oil injected motors....

Al

 

[wilde1j]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

XD100 is not necessary for Ficht motors. It's used on E-Tecs, which have a leaner oil SW setting, which Ficht's don't have. XD50 has a carbon buildup preventer additive, and is the current BRP recommendation for Ficht's, since I don't think the Ficht RAM oil has been available for some time.

 

[Al-53]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

thanks for clearing that up Wildej1....I use the XD-50 on my 35 hp for premix and when I went to get get more all I seen on the XD100 was for oil injection....so I assumed it was for the FITCH also..my mistake....

Thanks

Al

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

If you're going to mess with important stuff on this motor, why not get an OEM shop manual before you wreck stuff guessing? Your ideas about checking oil consumption are dangerous, at best. I'm sure the shop manual covers the oil injection pump quite thoroughly.

The original oil recommendation from OMC (now BRP) was Ficht RAM oil, now I think it's BRP XD50 oil. I would never have used cheapo Worst Marine oil at all, but that's just me.

A metallic knock is usually very bad news, and is typically a precursor to a major mechanical failure, if it's coming from inside the block.

------

I forgot to mention that I have 125psi in each cylinder so that was good. 900 hours on them.


I just received One of Two Service Manuals - Seloc

1) I have no warning lights. When I checked the Oil Pump it was certainly pumping and the oil warning light came on quickly.

They do no say what the flow rate of the Injector is. They do say that oil should move up the clean line (leading into engine block) about 0.10 for every 15-25 seconds so that sounds about right. I'm getting pressure because it squirts a little blast of oil out of the oil injector pretty far if I don't cover it. I was just surprised that it was such a small amount - so I checked the other motor and it's identical.

So.... it appears that everything is working.

I'm wondering if there is a air gap in the lines or clog. Manually force oil into the block to check flow etc....

 

[wilde1j]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

A shame you didn't get the OMC/BRP OEM manual. The manual should explain in detail about purging air in the oil system, etc.

How long has the knock existed?

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

A shame you didn't get the OMC/BRP OEM manual. The manual should explain in detail about purging air in the oil system, etc.

How long has the knock existed?

I just got the knock. I don't use the boat much and run it every month to maintain etc...

It says to kink the return hose but I need to check the nipples on the block for clogs.

I just put the boat in the water to fix trailer and noticed it for the first time.

That's the good news. The bad is what damage is already done. That's why I want to inject it manually to try and drowned out the noise to locate (and rule out clogs) etc...

Perhaps syphoning the oil out and replacing with the right stuff.

It appears that I've been using West Marine Premium TC-W3 Oil. I should have been using XD50 if I can get it in Honolulu or West Marine DFI Synthetic TC-W3 Oil. I'm looking into it now - not sure if the first one is even Synthetic. I think the Synthetic is a little thinner??? I don't run the motors at high RPMs so breakdown isn't a big issue. It would be FLOW I think.

Wish I knew that. I've got 6 gallons of the wrong stuff, two oil tanks full and a motor that isn't happy.

The motor does feel and sound tighter when manually turning (hard to do on either).

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Sooo..... my motors have 900 hours on them and I've probably put 400+ myself over the last 6 years.

I rarely use the boat anymore. Been out 4 times in the last 2 years.

Run the motors once a month to maintain. Sudden knocking occurs. Thinking it might have been sitting so long without higher RPM that oil has left the system in the amount it needs.......

Now I hear that I was supposed to be using Synthetic DFI oil in them. Didn't know - didn't have any manuals and the bottle from West Marine said their Premium Grade 2 Stroke TC-W3 runs on all makes and models.

It's a 2 Stroke Motor. How stupid do they need to be to require a special oil just because they've decided to pump oil directly into the block. Why special oil? Can't pump normal oil? Is it thicker?

How about putting that on Mount Label like other important items if it's that important. Many DFI engines say you can use a TC-W3 if you can't find their brand.

I don't want to pay Evinrude $25 for an Owners Manual. That's insulting. That PDF file should be free. I will spend $60 on two Service Manuals through. Free PDF Owner Manuals Evinrude - shame on you.

I doubt the TC-W3 oil is the main reason for the knock. It would have occurred hundreds of hours ago if it was that important. I've been on a couple of long multi-day trips with a 100 miles per day or more.

It is possible that the low RPM helped and the oil (if it's a little thicker) was reaching all the vital areas but over a long period of time - just not in the quantity to give the engine a 2000 hour life?????

I made some calls and I can get XD50 for about $34 a gallon. I'd like to know for sure what the deal is before I pump all that oil out and put in $150-$200 in new "SPECIAL" oil.

Time for the big Syringe to oil that puppy up. I poured some oil into the cylinders a couple of days ago to let that get down there.

Going to call Evinrude tomorrow to ask them and a local mechanic here that's been in business since electricity.

If the oil makes it to were it needs to be - there is no reason that it can't protect the engine running below 4000 rpms 99.999% of the time.

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Digging around a little.

Not sure if this is correct or not ??

The first Ficht motors said to use Premium TCW3 oil in them. They learned that it wasn't working properly. Introduced a special Ficht Ram Oil to correct the problem. The DFI Oil is thinner. Some say it's better able to atomize in the air to lubricate.

The first manuals said to use regular TCW3 oil - after two years it was Ficht Ram Oil.

I sure wish Premium West Marine had a warning if necessary.

Star Brite actually goes so far to say this on their Premium TCW3

THIS OIL IS A GENERIC REPLACEMENT FOR ENGINES REQUIRING STANDARD TCW3 OIL. THIS OIL IS NOT FOR USE IN EVINRUDE ETEC, EVINRUDE FICHT ENGINES, MERCURY OPTIMAX, OR YAMAHA HPDI.

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

From a Feb. 2000 article.

It appears the atomized stuff is pretty accurate - and they did change from TCW3 to a new oil they introduced.

It sounds like they learned that this new design created too much carbon (mostly low RPMs). Carbon absorbs oil.

Might have learned that DFI was spraying oil off cylinder head/top walls and deflected the spray.

They needed to create a new oil and it's thinner and cleaner.

Sounds like I need to get all the old stuff out and buy some XD-50. That's when it sucks to be in Hawaii!!!

Sure would have been nice if they PUT A STICKER OR NOTICE somewhere for such an important item. How about on the Motor Mount Label!!

I'm going to manually inject XD-50 and check for blocks in crankcase nipples.

Get the old stuff out - put the new stuff in.

Take it out and see if a nice 2-3 hour run at 2000-4000 rpm can take care of the noise.


--------


Most recently, OMC has introduced the new Evinrude FICHT RAM Injection Oil.

Specified for use with all FICHT models, the lubricant uses a 'polarised molecular' component known as 'CARB X'. According to OMC, this heavy duty solvent 'seeks out' carbon and holds it in suspension where it is expelled with exhaust gases. The oil itself is synthetic to increase biodegradability over mineral-based TC-W3 oils, while the 'CARB X' component is claimed to be 2.6 times more effective in reducing carbon than the normal TC-W3 solvent additives package.

The term 'CARB X' refers to the California Air Resources Board, which has decreed that outboards marketed in the US state must meet certain exhaust emission levels in the next few years through to 2007.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Most recently, OMC has introduced the new Evinrude FICHT RAM Injection Oil.

.

You are reading from some very old out of date information from a no-longer-in business company.

What have you done to find out what the knocking noise is? If it is a rod or piston damage there is nothing you can do until it is repaired.

Have you inspected the gearcase, flywheel, loose parts, etc to eliminate those items as noisemakers?

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

You are reading from some very old out of date information from a no-longer-in business company.

What have you done to find out what the knocking noise is? If it is a rod or piston damage there is nothing you can do until it is repaired.

Have you inspected the gearcase, flywheel, loose parts, etc to eliminate those items as noisemakers?

I was showing the timeline of the Ficht and DFI motors and how OMC and others apparently figured they needed to modify the current TCW3 a little in 1999-2000.

I don't see anything loose. I should be able to work on the boat today. Family has been a little sick lately.

Good Compression in all Cylinders (125) so I don't think it's pistons. It might be crank shaft bearing(s).

The weird thing is..... the knock is always the same... very exact.

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

You are reading from some very old out of date information from a no-longer-in business company.

What have you done to find out what the knocking noise is? If it is a rod or piston damage there is nothing you can do until it is repaired.

Have you inspected the gearcase, flywheel, loose parts, etc to eliminate those items as noisemakers?

Injected about 6 ounces (total) of Semi-Synthetic Yamaha Oil that I had for my jet ski into the FOUR oil lines leading into the block.

There does not appear to be any blockage in the lines.

Started it up and the knocking was still there. Sounds like the knocking might have been a little more random. I did put some oil into the spark plug holes last week.

When I rotate the Crank by hand I can hear it scraping. The other motor doesn't make a sound. Not Good.

Sounds like DRY CYLINDER WALLS.

Im thinking that the TC-W3 oil has been leaving too much carbon on the cylinder walls.

I think I'll spray the rest of my DEEP CRUDE bottle into the carb intake to clean it out again. Did that first and a bunch of crap came out of both motors.

Then I'll spray some oil in to see if the rotation is better.

I'm afraid the damage is done though. Unless I can free the motor of enough crap to reduce the resistance it's having.

I'm pretty sure the motor is working too hard right now.

It's worth a shot because as it stands now, I need to strip it down anyway.

Need to take pump out the TCW3 from tanks at bulb. Replace with XD-50.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Carbon doesn't build up on cylinder walls, but does on ring lands and grooves, piston tops, cylinder heads and exhaust passages. Never running at WOT doesn't help either.

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Carbon doesn't build up on cylinder walls, but does on ring lands and grooves, piston tops, cylinder heads and exhaust passages. Never running at WOT doesn't help either.

I'm thinking the sound turning the motor manually is Carbon Scoring on the Cylinder Walls. Perhaps it's piston slapping?

I doubt it's the Crank Gear now.

I think it was the TCW3 oil and heavy carbon.

Sucked all the oil out. Need to get the XD-50.

Still going to spray the carb intake and use some Corrosion Block.

Putting the oil in the cylinder seems to have made the manual crank rotation easier but the sound is no better.

Unfortunately, in the end I will most likely need to take it apart to repair.

 

[d.boat]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Read the FAQ about de-carboning. I don't think you're doing it right, but can't tell. I have no idea if it has anything to do with the noise though.

 

[askmelater]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Read the FAQ about de-carboning. I don't think you're doing it right, but can't tell. I have no idea if it has anything to do with the noise though.

Spraying the air intake works. Smokes a ton. Shot out a bunch of black crude the first time I did it a couple weeks ago. I poured Sea Foam in the cylinders once. I use Deep Crude their other product for intake.

Today I'm going to put some WD-40 in the Spark plug holes with hose attachment and see if I can lube the walls enough to turn the crank manually and see if I can get it to sound smoother. That will absolutely answer the question for me then.

I've put quite a few cleaners and oils in the carbs and cylinders at this point. I'm most likely going to need to take it apart anyway.

I'm thinking about taking it for a spin once before I wrap it up. Put the XD-50 in and run it for about an hour or two at 3000-4000 to see if somehow the gods could smile down on me The noise is new so I don't think I would do any major damage. If it gets worse, I can shut that motor down and come in on the other.

I'm pretty sure it's either carbon build up leading to cylinder scoring or corrosion/rust from salt on the cylinder walls. The noise it probably a bad piston bearing because of the friction. That's where I stand now.

Having the boat sit for so long and being near the ocean (on a trailer) left the engine exposed. Running at idle once in a while probably didn't provide the lubrication it needed.

I've had trouble with sticking throttle plates (butterfly?) on the intake holes because of corrosion if it sat too long. I didn't always remove the air protector (large black plastic manifold) after running it each time because it was attached with tie-straps - the rubber connectors broke a while back. I would use Salt-Away to spray the motor down and hook up the hose.

Because I wasn't using it that much I should have fogged it when I was done.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

Have you checked compression? Cylinder scoring will always cause compression to be down. You're probably hearing bearing noise, with quite a few possible choices (wrist pin, rod, main bearings) or damage to one or more of the surfaces the bearing ride on. Piston slap is another possibility.

 

[kybill66]

Re: HELP - 2000 Evinrude Ficht Oi/Bearing

To help keep the carbon down try yamaha ring free it was develop for the hpdi for this reason just put it in your gas. Yamaha also has internal engine clean that is very expensive but good it really cleans all the carbon from the motor.