Help Diagnosing carb vs ignition problem, 5.7 mercruiser

peakay

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Ok, so I swapped out the coil for a new one and tested again. Engine started so fast it scared the crap out of me! However, 30 minutes later the problem came back.
Thank you.

Our mechanic came out today and suspects it’s a fuel pump issue. He is going to return Monday and test the flow plus inspect the contents of the fuel filters.

If it is the fuel pump, the mechanical ones range from $50 for an aftermarket to 150 for an own mercury quicksilver one. Worth it to stay open or should we consider switching to electric?

ps - I will suggest the check the spark as well. I’ve heard there’s a wire or module in the distributor that can go flaky.
 

peakay

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Pss - here is a stupidly long video of the problem recorded and posted to YouTube. The boat doesn’t seem to die as fast with the carb rebuilt, further leading me to believe it’s fuel related, but who knows?

 

alldodge

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Need to see what the choke is doing. Is it full open or still closed a bit

I would like to have a fuel pressure gauge between pump and carb

When carb idle is adjusted is the linkage disconnected?
Then when linkage is reconnected, is it adjusted to apply a slight pressure to keep carb closed?
 

peakay

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Need to see what the choke is doing. Is it full open or still closed a bit

I would like to have a fuel pressure gauge between pump and carb

When carb idle is adjusted is the linkage disconnected?
Then when linkage is reconnected, is it adjusted to apply a slight pressure to keep carb closed?
As I recall still closed a bit. On the linkage, yes I set it with the linkage disconnected. I had never done it before and didn’t set it to apply pressure, but I’m confident it’s not a linkage issue.
 

alldodge

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IF (all those IF's)

If the choke is slightly closed when warm then it gets more fuel.

If idle is adjusted with choke slightly closed then more fuel means idle not adjusted correctly

If its not adjusted correctly then when it finally warms fully the idle decreases and it gets to low

If the throttle plate is not being held fully closed by spring tension and cable disconnected, then your not getting accurate idle setting

Could be more If's but I'm tired and its late
 

Mcfltfyter

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Ok, that is definitely not ignition. Will it not rev up when it does this? Who adjusted the idle?

Sorry, this is not what I understood by your description. It sounds like it is slowly loading up and you just wait for it to die.
 

zellerj

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I don't know if this is correct or not, but I believe you can adjust the length of the throttle cable at the dual control helm station, just a touch, and adjust the cold idle at 1200 so the warm idle is at 800, preventing the stall situation. A bandaid fix for sure, but it may get you out in the water and enjoying the season while you sort out other fixes.
 

peakay

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after a long day of trouble shooting, checking spark, taking the fuel filters off and seeing a lower than expected level, tracing the fuel lines all the way back, removing and cleaning all connections, he found....a problem with the anti-siphon valve at the exit of the fuel tank, I don't know exactly what was wrong, but he did something to it (probably cleaning out varnished fuel deposits) and then the engine no longer would slowly run out of fuel. I took the boat out of the harbor and ran it fairly hard for about 15 minutes including a couple full throttle runs and no stumbles or stalls.

Now for some follow up issues.... First, by logic, I do not think the mech fuel pump was bad since we replicated symptoms with the electric one (though maybe not quite as bad). the mechanic (who I have some language barriers with) insists it was a two part problem, but I really want him to pull the electric pump back off and put the oem one back on. Anyone disagree with this? When he tested the pressure it showed 7-8 psi as he ran the engine off starting fuel while testing the pressure on a rubber hose added to the rigid fuel line. To me that was good, but he said it should be higher at idle so when under load it maintains in the 8 psi range, plus it could have been constrained by the plugged up anti-siphon valve. It was also a janky install in my opinion with a power wire running off the coil and no oil pressure cutout, no heat shrink connections (simple crimp), etc.. While I hate to mess with a running engine, I think having STBD with an electric pump and Port with a mechanical will look really bad upon time to sell, let alone how it was installed.

Let me know your thoughts on this. Also, I had bought a cheaper aftermarket carter pump -- better to put the old oem one back on or the new carter (unpainted).

Secondly, I ran both motors for a short time at absolute full throttle and Port pulled 3800 and Stbd (the side with the issues) only 3400. I had to back off the throttle substantially on the port side to match RPMS. It was a bit choppy so I couldn't hammer it for long, but enough to be sure of this discrepency at high rpms.

Do you think the cause of the lower rpms is the fuel is still somewhat constricted? Any other explanation?

Thanks everyone for the help - would love to hear back on this before meeting with him again tomorrow. I feel the R&R of putting the OEM pump back on is worth it even if it doesn't go well and the electric one has to be put back on. I hate non original stuff and i know it reduces the boat's value come sale and survey time.
 

alldodge

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I really want him to pull the electric pump back off and put the oem one back on. Anyone disagree with this?
Not me,

Do you think the cause of the lower rpms is the fuel is still somewhat constricted? Any other explanation?

No, I think one motor has more compression or better fuel delivery then the other

I short, my opinion is your Mech replaced some parts not really understanding what the problem was. When the parts didn't fix the issue and the problem was found (antisiphon valve) then he is trying to say it was 2 problems and not just one.
 

crazy charlie

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When this is happening,pull dist cap and look inside for any condensation.Had same issue years ago same motor 5.7 and that solved it every time.Also had some green on the inside ig cap contacts from the condensation.Charlie
 

Lou C

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Ok interesting I was following your thread on THT as well.
1) it revs up and holds the higher rpm without dying, so the accell pump is working and main system is likely clear
2) the dying at idle suggests either excessively lean or rich idle setting:
a) as recommended the choke should be open or mostly open, when it starts doing that take off the flame arrestor and hold the choke plate open by hand, does it stabilize? Then your slow opening or non-opening choke was contributing. If not you can have a lean fuel mix issue instead.
b) judging by access this won't be easy but I'd want to see those spark plugs, specifically the color of the center insulator. If its black, then you are too rich, if blistered white, too lean.
Did the mechanic properly adjust the idle mixture screws after installing the carb? This is not hard to do and may be the solution. If not then the idle system is still not clean enough for it to maintain a steady idle.

Without seeing the plugs it is hard to say if your dying is lean or rich fuel mix unless the choke is not opening at all which is rich fuel mix.

PS secondaries will not open with the engine in neutral with no load on it. On the Q-Jet, the secondary throttle plates are mechanically operated but the air door flaps (right behind the choke plate) are vacuum operated & under spring pressure and will not open till engine vacuum drops enough (due to load on the engine) to require the extra air & fuel flow.

Adjusting the idle mixture screws:
you need a good accurate digital tach, hook the tach + to the coil - and the tach - to engine ground.
LIGHTLY screw the idle mix screws in all the way, after seated turn them out 3 turns
start engine let idle stabilize
turn one in, till it starts to stumble, then back out till it recovers, then keep turning out till it stumbles it again. This is first leaning the mix, then enrichening the mix. You want set it between these 2 points. So after it stumbles from scewing the mix screw out, screw it in slowly till the ilde recovers and stop there. This is between what we used to call lean roll and rich roll.
Do the same for the other idle mix screw. Depending on access you will proably need a special flex shaft carb adjusting tool. This takes practice but the idle mix adjustment has to be done right. And the choke has to open all the way once the engine warms up.
 
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peakay

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Aug 21, 2009
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So I had the guy put the original fuel pump back in against his advice, sea trialed the boat, no problems. All is good now. Sole problem was the anti-siphon valve.

I will keep this mechanic for basic maintenance and find someone better for troubleshooting. Would have used someone else this time, but it was several weeks wait.

Thanks everyone for all the help! Case closed.
 

nola mike

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So I had the guy put the original fuel pump back in against his advice, sea trialed the boat, no problems. All is good now. Sole problem was the anti-siphon valve.

I will keep this mechanic for basic maintenance and find someone better for troubleshooting. Would have used someone else this time, but it was several weeks wait.

Thanks everyone for all the help! Case closed.
That fixed the wot rpm discrepancy?
 

peakay

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Aug 21, 2009
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Just to follow up, did a weekend island trip about 60 miles round trip and all was fine. Didn't do anything crazy - just planed out and then backed the engines to 3k rpms and ran between 18-21 knots dragging a dinghy. no problems.
 

Lou C

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So it was all the anti siphon valve eh? Sometimes it’s really just the simple things!
 
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