Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

Pessemist

Seaman
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
61
A little bit of history.

About three months ago I bought a 268DA Sea ray Sundancer with the 7.4L Mercruiser engine.

Almost immediately I had drive problems. Second time out I felt a 'clunk' and I assumed we hit something but it was deep and middle of the channel. After the 'clunk' the prop appeared 'spun' and we limped into the marina.

I pulled the prop and the hub was pretty old and worn and appeared spun. Put new hub kit in and went back out. Under load the boat would not plane. The WOT RPM's maxed out at 3800rpm (should be 4500rpm). While plowing through trying to get on plane with 6 people we felt another 'clunk' this time way out in the navigation lane so I'm pretty sure we didn't hit anything. But, again, there was damage to the prop hub and, this time, we needed a tow.

Back at the marina we noted that the prop was a SS 15.25x19" which was WAY OVER pitch for this boat. OEM prop should be a 15.25x15.

I told the mechanic to tear down the outdrive. He found a twisted driveshaft and enough metal shavings in the oil to make it look like metallic paint.

At this point I ordered a new sterndrive with a 1:47 gear ratio (original OEM 1:32 but not available anymore).

Got boat back yesterday and repropped with a 16"x16" to take in account the new gear ratio.

Did a run for two hours at very low rpms (800-1500rpm) to break in new outdrive.

After two hours I did a run up to 2400rpms on calm flat water and felt the engine 'let go'. No clunk or other associated noise. The engine just felt like it disengaged spontaneously.

I immediately pulled back the throttle to neutral and opened the engine compartment to see if I could smell burning rubber (coupler?). I smelled nothing. I reengaged the engine and idled back to the dock. I did not try to add any more power for fear of damaging anything. Going slow it worked flawlessly.

To me it felt like something just 'let go' like maybe the engine coupler? Maybe that's part of the original problem? The old yoke shaft looks good and doesn't have any melted rubber on it. It also came across like cavitation or ventilation but the drive was tucked down and trim was close to neutral I believe.

The outdrive does have a drive shower hooked into a bolted on Whale-Tail. Would the Whale Tail influence anything?

My question is where do I go from here? What can I check or have the mechanic check short of pulling the drive back off? I am taking her out again tomorrow to see if the problem repeats.

Thanks for any insight someone may have.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

Howdy,

Yup. It sounds like you may have it "pegged"

First of all, it would be really nice if you posted the year model, and serial numbers of the engine and drive so some of us could determine what you have.

From your description, it sounds like a PRE-1989 (or so) Mercruiser 454 and Alpha drive.

Maybe you replaced it with an SEI?

The Alpha is pretty much at it's limits of HP behind a 454 by the way.


I immediately pulled back the throttle to neutral and opened the engine compartment to see if I could smell burning rubber (coupler?). I smelled nothing. I reengaged the engine and idled back to the dock. I did not try to add any more power for fear of damaging anything. Going slow it worked flawlessly.


Burning rubber is a sign of a spun coupler, but it's also a sign of a failed raw water impeller. (the rubber exhaust tubes burn)

It should be fairly easy to see. get a flashlight and look directly at the coupler with a small mirror. Also, it's not always rubber that "spins". The inner splines of the coupler are aluminum. If they're worn or the drive alignment was a little off (and you have a LOT of HP [454]) they don't last long.

Look for fine metal "shavings" below the coupler......

It may "hold" at low power settings for a very limited amount of time. It will get worse. eventually (mere minutes) it will not even turn the drive in in gear at idle rpm (if the aluminum splines have "stripped")



If you have spun the coupler. You MUST remove the drive, and engine (in that order) to replace it.

Regards,


Rick

At this point I ordered a new sterndrive with a 1:47 gear ratio (original OEM 1:32 but not available anymore).

Got boat back yesterday and repropped with a 16"x16" to take in account the new gear ratio.

By the way, if you had a "mechanic" do the job. It's possible that the shift cable is out of adjustment........If he installed it, let him trouble shoot it....
 

Pessemist

Seaman
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
61
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

Rick-

1988' Sundancer 7.4L Alpha 1. 300hp.

Getting a mirror, per your suggestion, and taking look at coupler tomorrow am. Mechanic who just installed a new mercruiser alpha 1 said the alignment was good during the install. He is mercruiser certified.

I'll check tomorrow and report what I see.



What exactly should I look for?
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

Rick-

1988' Sundancer 7.4L Alpha 1. 300hp.

Getting a mirror, per your suggestion, and taking look at coupler tomorrow am. Mechanic who just installed a new mercruiser alpha 1 said the alignment was good during the install. He is mercruiser certified.

I'll check tomorrow and report what I see.



What exactly should I look for?

The drive was most likely aligned properly...... Couplers DO wear out though. It also might have not been aligned properly (or checked) for many years prior to your replacing the drive. (my last coupler on my last boat went 39 years on an old 150 Mercruiser)


(Mercruiser recommends checking/adjusting alignment YEARLY btw)

In any case, use a flashlight and mirror again. Look closely at where the splined yoke enters the coupler. (it's dark & tight back there) if you see metal "filings" it might be the coupler.

If you do not see any filings, it still might be the coupler. They don't always produce visible metal powder/filings etc

If it's definitely NOT a shifting/dog-clutch issue, you might need to pull the drive and look more closely into the coupler to see if the splines have been stripped.

The evidence on the steel yoke splines will also be much more obvious.
 

Pessemist

Seaman
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
61
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

Rick-

Thanks, will keep all that in mind. I think if the coupler is bad it has been bad for awhile (prior to the new sterndrive installation).

The splines on the old Yoke from the broke stern drive unit looked really good. Nothing abnormal about the wear on them. The splines on the vertical outdrive driveshaft, however, were definitely torqued out of alignment by some huge impact in the past. Also the gears were a mess as evidenced by all the metal shavings in the oil.

I am going visibly inspect the coupler as best I can. If I see nothing untoward I'll swap prop for a known good one and also check the gear lube for shavings to see if maybe I got a bad drive (doubtful but mechanics suggestions).

The prop I had just put on was a reconditioned prop that a customer never picked up and sat on the prop stores shelf after repair for two years. I am wondering if that prop could have had a weak hub (pressed in type). I doubt it. I've boated for decades and never had a spun prop before and now all of a sudden to have all these spun prop problems?

I may also try and reproduce the problem and note the engine temp change if the rpm's take off again. I figure a large engine temp spike would be a sure sign of a bad coupler. Then straight to the engine hoist with it!
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

Rick-

Thanks, will keep all that in mind. I think if the coupler is bad it has been bad for awhile (prior to the new sterndrive installation).

The splines on the old Yoke from the broke stern drive unit looked really good. Nothing abnormal about the wear on them. The splines on the vertical outdrive driveshaft, however, were definitely torqued out of alignment by some huge impact in the past. Also the gears were a mess as evidenced by all the metal shavings in the oil.

I am going visibly inspect the coupler as best I can. If I see nothing untoward I'll swap prop for a known good one and also check the gear lube for shavings to see if maybe I got a bad drive (doubtful but mechanics suggestions).

The prop I had just put on was a reconditioned prop that a customer never picked up and sat on the prop stores shelf after repair for two years. I am wondering if that prop could have had a weak hub (pressed in type). I doubt it. I've boated for decades and never had a spun prop before and now all of a sudden to have all these spun prop problems?

I may also try and reproduce the problem and note the engine temp change if the rpm's take off again. I figure a large engine temp spike would be a sure sign of a bad coupler. Then straight to the engine hoist with it!

Remember that the splines on the yoke are fairly hardened steel. They usually don't wear all that much (although they do wear and get rather sharp as they wear out)
The aluminum inner splines on the coupler wear much more especially if they're not lubricated properly with the correct lubricant.

I would also change the prop if you had a used (unknown) prop on there.

3 things "let-go". Coupler, prop-hubs and/or clutch dogs (from shift cable mis-adjustment). It's one of the three if the drive is otherwise ok.

If it's a coupler failure, and it still goes into gear and doesn't slip at low RPM, that will not last long. It will get worse VERY quickly! and will get to the point where it will not turn the drive at all (even in neutral)

If the drive stops turning in neutral, the engine will overheat after several minutes of no cooling.
 

Pessemist

Seaman
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
61
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

I tried to inspect the engine coupler this morning. From what I could see it looked OK. No spun out rubber bits. However I did notice a lot of grease (mechanic just installed new stern drive). And I noted the big O-ring on the shaft from the engine just hangs out in the air not sealing anything. Is this normal? Note pictures.
 

Attachments

  • best.jpg
    best.jpg
    77 KB · Views: 4
  • best2.jpg
    best2.jpg
    55.6 KB · Views: 4

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

I tried to inspect the engine coupler this morning. From what I could see it looked OK. No spun out rubber bits. However I did notice a lot of grease (mechanic just installed new stern drive). And I noted the big O-ring on the shaft from the engine just hangs out in the air not sealing anything. Is this normal? Note pictures.
The pics are a little blurry. The grease looks like the correct "stuff" (it's the right color!) That O-ring isn't used with that coupler.

If you have the boat in the water have someone put it in gear while you look at the yoke/coupler. If the shaft appears to briefly "stop" you may have a failing coupler. (although that won't last long if true)

It's starting to sound more like the shift cable is mis-adjusted and it's "popping" out of gear or the drive is defective.

If you had someone do the install, let them trouble shoot. You have some sort of warranty?
 

emoney

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
2,551
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

And don't be so pessimistic (get it? your username?....buwahahahaha)

Sorry, just trying to inject a little humor. Carry on.
 

Pessemist

Seaman
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
61
Re: Help! Engine coupler/prop spun problem BIG TIME HELP NEEDED!

Resolution-

It appears that this particular boat is prone to cavitate if the stern drive is the least little bit not trimmed down. This, combined with two spun prop hubs, confused to as I just assumed I had spun the prop hub yet again.

Pulling the boat and examining the hub revealed it intact. Examination of the engine coupler with a mirror revealed no rubber bits sprayed around nor any melted rubber parts. So as far as I could determine there were no obvious signs of coupler failure.

I put the boat back in the water, made sure the trim had tucked the drive under the boat and lowered the trim tabs.

No more cavitation and no more 'spun' prop or coupler signs/symptoms.

I've slowly broke in the new stern drive per spec and she now planes and cruises like a dream.

Guess the lesson is, don't fixate on a cause --always go back and walk through a problem.
 
Top